Facebook senior software engineer interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#411

Post by kenhwang » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:27 PM UTC

wanderer2323 wrote: post #309

Uberphallus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of agree with your cynicism, but I'm partial due to having been refused by Facebook, twice. The first time I made the mistake of using Python (because of its whiteboard value) while not being proficient in it. They really didn't like me Googling some basic stuff. The second time I still used Python, but had 5 years experience using it behind. Can't be objective but it was probably the best interview I've ever…

There is this weird meme that using Python is beneficial during interviewing -- you mention it, the OP mentions it, I have experienced it myself and seen friends mention it. I don't know how or why this meme infects people; in my interview experience (MSFT, Google, Oracle, FB, Amazon, other smaller places) nobody ever batted an eyelid on me using C#. My advice would be to only use a language you know best, as long as…

Python is beneficial in that everyone understands or can learn to understand basic Python in the time it takes to do an interview.

However, due to the whiteboard and performance focused aspect of the typical coding interview, Python is actually kinda an awful language to interview with. Plus, if you want to be terse with Python (whiteboard space is limited after all), it quickly becomes alphabet soup.

If I had to describe the perfect interviewing language, it'd be something with C/Java-like syntax, but without the cruft, that can optionally be typed, with easy fine grain control over looping. All the big-tech companies work with way too much Java, but Java is way too verbose for coding by hand. C# is about as close to Java as they come. Scala/Kotlin is excellent if you write it like Java.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#412

Post by kenhwang » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:32 PM UTC

jrib wrote: post #379

jrd259 wrote: post #190

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We always allow the candidate to use any reasonable language. We're not testing if someone knows Java/Python/Lisp (I wish). We're testing if they know any language. I can confirm seeing people with resumes who nevertheless could not write any code even in the language they professed to be "expert" in.

Same. I learned through experience to ask for a candidate to write a couple of lines of code. Usually it's just some simple question that requires a single loop. We explicitly tell them they can use any language including one they want to make up as long as they are ok explaining how it works. When possible, I try to relate it to the conversation we've had up to that point. I've had someone start off by writing "four…

Yep. I just want to actually see you plop some if-else and for/while loops on the board in any Googleable language. I'm the one with the laptop/phone and I can learn that language on the spot if I need to.

It's basically "find the first string in an array of string that has the letter 'b'" difficulty of questions. Anyone who actually codes can whip something up in a minute and we can move on. But it's always surprising how many people spend half an hour on that and still don't get anything workable.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#413

Post by kenhwang » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

ativzzz wrote: post #359

MajorBee wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $MANGA as well. (Microsoft, Apple, Netflix, Google, Amazon) I must say this is a new acronym (backronym?) for me. Why do people insist on shoe-horning in Netflix in there? Yes, I'm aware without the N these acronyms can collapse into a more distasteful and off-topic term, but is that the only reason? I'm sure Netflix is a "wealthy" company with a competent engineering org, but surely they are nowhere near the scale…

Mostly because Netflix has very high compensation for senior engineers.

And a well above average expectation of skill. IMO the most difficult interview to pass in that group.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#414

Post by erik_seaberg » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:45 PM UTC

Analog24 wrote: post #110

janoc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it proves what exactly? Except that they have lost out on a good hire only because that hire is not familiar with that particular programming language that the interview is.

But that's not how it works. You are almost always free to use why language you want. There are exceptions to this but in those cases it would be clearly indicated in the job description.

We have approved languages for projects at work (Java, Scala, Go, and Python in special cases), but I let candidates use any language I can read, and it’s never been a problem.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#415

Post by tstack » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

Kaizeras wrote: post #73

Most of the people I know who did competitive programming in high school spent a just a few evenings preparing for FAANG interviews and still got offers in the end. I have the feeling that all the bitterness towards this interview process comes from people who refuse to do the initial investment of time to learn the foundation for solving coding challenges. Once you go through and understand a few hundred coding chal…

> Personally, I find coding challenges fun and even quite enjoyable at times, so I don’t see why it’s a waste of time to get good at them.

You really can't imagine that someone feels differently? Please try to have a more open mind.

I, for one, would much rather spend my free time on my side-project that is actually used by people. I would have a hard time working on something that was a throwaway. (Which is what actually happened when I tried to interview at FB. I spent more time working on the side-project than studying leetcode. FB promptly told me I couldn't code... "OK")

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#416

Post by themacguffinman » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #344

fb_throwaway123 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an honest answer * spread of misinformation on the platform/genocide in Myanmar/election integrity - this to me is the scariest thing about FB, but also something the company is dealing with and working on and trying to get right. It's not an easy problem to solve either. * Targeted ads - This really doesn't bother me. Tracking user interests/behavior and using it to serve ads they are way more likely to engag…

To your last point: the issue here is that Facebook is not interested in making users happy. They are interested in keeping them engaged so that they can sell ads. No studies are needed to show that if users' happiness or well-being gets them in the way of selling more ads, fuck the users. It is no different than Big Tobacco putting all kinds of additives and carcigenic substances on cigarettes to get people more add…

No company on earth is interested in making their users happy, they're just interested in making money. This is some silly moral purity test where a company has to have pure intentions in order to do good. Our society works because people have the space & incentive to do good regardless of their intentions, and many Facebook users seem happy to use the service and find value in it regardless of whatever sinister intentions you might speculate of Facebook.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#417

Post by s0rce » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

cableshaft wrote: post #297

reidjs wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In somewhat of a parallel, you don’t have to switch jobs either, you can start your own software company at any time ;)

I've tried doing freelance before, and I was a terrible marketer for myself. While that's definitely an option for people in this industry, I'm not sure it's a great path for me.

Same with medicine. Although under-served markets are common you still have to market yourself in private practice. New specialists advertise to GPs to get referrals for example.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#418

Post by whiskyant » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

NeverFade wrote: post #7

Besides the usual advice, this observation is very interesting: > Applying for senior engineering positions (>E4) in FANG companies is one of the best ways to get into them. This comment by a veteran senior engineer confirms to me that Facebook, just like most other FANGs, does a poor job of promoting from within. There are multiple comments to the same effect from many other FANG employees: It's much easier to get r…

Not at all, Facebook does the best job out of any FAANG at promoting, and most E5+ are internal promoted. External E5 hires are less common, external E6 hires are rare.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#419

Post by xdavidliu » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #203

EForEndeavour wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say they copy-paste code. They pointed out that the algorithm's actual code could very easily be copy-pasted from, e.g., Stack Overflow, without deeply understanding it. By contrast, describing an algorithm in natural language demonstrates actual understanding.

Thank you, yes, that was my point. The interviewer gave me a choice of languages, as I recall in fact he said "use a language you're comfortable with" and I thought to myself, what does this prove? I can google the answer and paste it in without him knowing. Whereas, I can explain instantly how I would do it, too fast to have googled it, and he could maybe interactively ask me "what about this condition? how would yo…

you seem to be protesting too much. I think it's entirely reasonable for a tech company to ask for code, even if you can describe the algorithm in plain english. Surely writing the code is significantly less than the effort you're expending right now to demonstrate to us why they are unreasonable?

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#420

Post by LandR » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:01 AM UTC

quicfufhrt wrote: post #237

nafizh wrote: post #137

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You are doing a whataboutism just like many others. Among FAANG, Facebook is distinctly more problematic. If you don't see that, you are just unaware of the scandals upon scandals from the last 5 years.

True but I am tired of seeing a free pass for the leaders, legislators, board, share holders etc. but bring out moral pitch forks for engineers who perhaps have the least amount of decision making powers in a company as massive as FB/FAANG. I am willing to bet that even the ones here that are in disbelief about how one can work in such a company, I bet uses their products and/or is invested directly or indirectly wit…

> least amount of decision making powers in a company as massive as FB/FAANG

They have the power to choose not to work there.