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School or Prison

schoolprison.com

411–420 of 497 posts

Re: School or Prison

#411
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to ask why a non trivial amount of people would lie about needing to go to the bathroom. This is not a common behavior of teenagers at home, in a museum, at camp, on a canoe trip, or just about anywhere else I can think of...

Kids lie to avoid esting vegetables. Are vegetables prison?

Kids lie to avoid eating vegetables... because humans are evolutionary adapted to really like sugar, and they know that higher sugar foods exist.

Sugar = good is no longer an appropriate heuristic given the change in nutritional availability - in fact it is now harmful - so we force kids to behave differently.

It's not clear that school is similar. Is it not the case that people learn better when they are adequately stimulated and engaged? Even if not, how far should we go in making kids miserable to force them to learn more? Do we need to make them miserable or is there an alternative? This is what I mean by asking why, and it's not clear to me what all the answers are (it's a very complex question).

Re: School or Prison

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a lot of the "tough on crime" messaging comes from the unique context of the 70s and 80s, when crime was much higher than today and continually rising. I'm hopeful that prison reform is a much more politically palatable message now that crime has been trending down for decades.

Crime may be trending down, but I think the perception is that it's more common - I remember reading the results of multiple polls to that effect over the last decade. People consistently believe that crime has gotten worse. Part of there blame was placed on the news media overreporting crime stories (as what else are they going to talk about when nothing exciting is happening?) which skews public perception of the a…

The polling I'm familiar with (e.g. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1603/crime.aspx) indicates that there's been a significant shift. In particular I'd point at the "too tough, not tough enough or about right" question; in 1992, the idea that we shouldn't be tougher on crime was quite radical and the idea that we're too tough on crime was practically nonexistent.

Re: School or Prison

#413
post #293

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

I know a judge who has said the US "corrections" system is not designed to correct criminals and prevent future crimes. It's designed to punish people.

[deleted]

Re: School or Prison

#414

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

Is it possible to ask for solitary confinement 100% of the time? I feel like I would do okay for at least one year that way. Especially since you do see a human at least once a day.

Re: School or Prison

#415
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a judge who has said the US "corrections" system is not designed to correct criminals and prevent future crimes. It's designed to punish people.

Yeah completely agree that's what it's designed for, but to what end? What goal do we think the punishment achieves? The only useful thing about it IMO is preventing truly dangerous/sick people from interacting with the rest of society. Most prisoners are not that

Wikipedia[1] lays out a list of common justifications for imprisonment that feels accurate: rehabilitation, deterrence, incapacitation, and retribution. Different societies may prioritize each of those differently.

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest the US has gone long on the "retribution" angle in their approach to criminal justice.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Theories_of_punishment_...

Re: School or Prison

#416
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah completely agree that's what it's designed for, but to what end? What goal do we think the punishment achieves? The only useful thing about it IMO is preventing truly dangerous/sick people from interacting with the rest of society. Most prisoners are not that

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. This is a noticeable drop into hell right here.

We don't need you to change your views but we do need you not to post like this. A more substantive, less aggressive way of making your point would be fine.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: School or Prison

#417
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No. It's because we possess empathy.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, let along generic ideological flamewar, which is the sort of hell we're trying to avoid here.

Re: School or Prison

#418

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

I'd like to express a controversial opinion. I am totally indifferent to the suffering of violent criminals. If you have consciously used violence against innocent people - if you have broken into an occupied home, if you have accosted people with weapons, committed sexual violence, or given drugs to children - then I would not object to your summary execution.

In my eyes, the lives of people who make such choices are worth less than those of loyal pets, or innocent farm animals. It is clear that greed and longing for status fuels crime in our society. Violent criminals are not responsible providers with families who have simply fallen on hard times. They are people who make choices. And in my eyes it is these choices which dehumanize them.

To be perfectly clear, I am not talking about thieves, destroyers of property, or people who sell drugs to adults. I'm only talking about people who use violence and violate consent.

There is more than one effective method for penal administration. I think we should be taking a closer look at Japan. Its penal system is notoriously harsh, with criminals who have served time in both the US and Japan unanimously agreeing that Japanese prison is a far more terrible experience. Japan is also a remarkably peaceful society, with a remarkably low recidivism rate. The mistake that US prison administration makes is that it allows prison criminal culture to develop and prosper. In Japan no such thing is permitted. People are required to maintain strict order, and are not permitted to socialize or speak freely. Beatings and solitary confinement are routine.

Conversely, prison records are sealed, and once prisoners have served their time they are free to find work and integrate into society. There are many groups of people who deserve our limited sympathy before violent criminals.

Re: School or Prison

#419

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

Bring back flogging! Another great way to deal with male criminals would be to cut their balls off. Solves the root problem.

We ban accounts that post like this. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the intended spirit of the site.

Re: School or Prison

#420

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

I'd like to express a controversial opinion. I am totally indifferent to the suffering of violent criminals. If you have consciously used violence against innocent people - if you have broken into an occupied home, if you have accosted people with weapons, committed sexual violence, or given drugs to children - then I would not object to your summary execution. In my eyes, the lives of people who make such choices ar…

Please don't post this sort of internet cowboy comment here. "I would not object to your summary execution" is not curious conversation, it's inflated rhetoric that will only provoke worse from others.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: Also, it looks like you've only been commenting on HN for the purposes of ideological battle. That's not what this site is for, it's against the rules, and we ban such accounts. Please review the guidelines.

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