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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#411

Post by unityByFreedom »

nilkn wrote: post #338

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

I agree with your last point, it's not that hard to accept the fact that your company is influenced by social trends. Pretending that we're laser focused and everything should be checked at the door wreaks of bias.

Clearly, the CEO was not distressed at the events, and wanted to minimize anyone else's negative feelings about the matter because it wasn't important to him.

A better CEO might recognize that this issue was important to the social fabric and therefore is also important to his company's mission.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#412

Post by TwoBit »

xenadu02 wrote: post #160
RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms. You hire them to ensure there is "no evidence" of anything done wrong. The primary purpose is to create a credible defense in lawsuits but PR purposes are also common. Firms that find problems suddenly see their business dry up because most companies d…

Imagine if the consultants had in fact found discrimination. Would the company ever report that publicly? Maybe there was or wasn't discrimination, but there is zero reason to conclude based on somebody chosen and paid for by the company.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#413

Post by throwaway201103 »

tptacek wrote: post #386
throwaway201103 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why are they afraid? Where did they get the notion that black people are aggressive?

Several centuries worth of deeply ingrained racism?

OK but why is it perpetuated today? My contention would be that it is mostly popular entertainment, movies, music, and media that perpetuates this view of the aggressive black male.

I have had little exposure to black people in my life. The few that I have encountered in school or professionally have not demonstrated any aggressive nature. I have no first-hand experience of aggression by any black man. My parents did not teach me that black men are aggressive. I did not learn this in school or from my friends. The only way I can think of that I might have gotten this impression is from movies, television, music, and media. These are the same people who are now professing and demonstrating how woke and concerned they are, rather than apologizing for their roles as the primary perpetuators of a stereotype.

Therefore when I see media or entertainment figures (I include politicians here) on the anti-racist soapbox, it all falls rather flat for me. They are the ones fanning the flames on one side, and demanding attonement from everybody else on the other side.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#414

Post by xvector »

tptacek wrote: post #307
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newspeak makes a distinction between "poc" and "non black poc"

It's not "newspeak" to suggest that Black people are treated differently than Asian people; in fact, it would be more surprising to hear that they aren't, since the two groups of people have wildly different histories in the United States.

And both face heavy discrimination and racism outside of the tech bubble of Silicon Valley, both historically and in the present day. To exclude Asians from the definition of POC is to disempower us because you consider one POC “more important” than another.

Indeed, we see this mentality in programs like affirmative action in which the suffering of Asian children is seen as an acceptable sacrifice for uplifting other minorities.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#415

Post by eric_b »

tptacek wrote: post #319
Taek wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is too snarky for my taste but the main thrust of the message is spot on. When I've taken the time to ask black friends and black professionals in my industry about their experience, it's very clear that they deal with an extra level of complications and hardships compared to me. And it's not "my one black friend was a victim of racism this one time." It's just generally harder to get a job. It's just ge…

Same! For instance, it never occurred to me that Black men have to be especially careful about expressing frustration, because white coworkers find any expression of anger from a Black man threatening. But that's what my neighbor, who also works in tech, told me: that he's basically never allowed to object as forcefully as white coworkers, because otherwise he'll get HR complaints. There's probably a whole lot of shi…

The general thesis of the diversity trainings I've attended is that white men believe they are superior to black men (sometimes consciously, sometimes subconsciously, depending on the fervor of the trainer). White men are racist just by existing - being part of the "white patriarchy" gives them a sense of entitlement and many advantages, whether they are aware or not. So let's say for the sake of argument all that is true...

Then why would a white man ever feel threatened by an angry black man expressing his opinion?

And anyways, what white person in 2020 complains to HR about an angry black man? And if they do, who listens? Get real.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#416

Post by ramraj07 »

thegrimmest wrote: post #383
ramraj07 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, who cares that racism and sexism can go on and create a disproportionately hostile environment for just some people right! "I don't see anything bad happening to me, so everyone shouldn't care either!" Thankfully even if the world doesn't act that way, the majority (for now) aren't evil enough to also blatantly proclaim that this is also fine.

> I don't see anything bad happening to me, so everyone shouldn't care either! What about: > people's rights to have consensual interactions and relationships with each other are more important than their right to be treated "fairly" whatever that actually means. The important point here is that we don't have a good working definition of "fair" that is universally agreed upon. The only ethical way to live in a societ…

As much as it's uncomfortable to define fair, I'd argue that it behooves us to strain and come to a conclusion. Every societal problem today and in history can probably be attributed to people not wanting to define a global fair, or defining it in a way (at least in retrospect) that was ostensibly below the mark. I'm sure that at some points in the US history thought it's fair to treat some people as slaves, so does your proclaimed universal sentence stand there too?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#417

Post by tetrometal »

TACIXAT wrote: post #331
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should any company or board reflect the population?

When companies do not reflect the population then it shows that some races do not have the same opportunity as others.

If you measure some quantity using biased sampling, you're invariably going to see biased results. The assumption that the biased results in this scenario are due to lack of opportunity, racism, etc are unfounded. Correlation is not causation.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#418

Post by adjkant »

leppr wrote: post #406
adjkant wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's helpful here to examine the conception of a racist. Most racists don't identify as such and have a racist agenda they consciously act on. In these cases, it's baked in through various experiences into the subconscious, and rationalized away in many ways. Maybe it's eugenics, maybe it's media bias, maybe it's simply a personal preference, and they think they don't let it affect their decisions. > it's the…

> Coinbase's own (unrefuted) numbers show they are far worse than other tech companies. Where is your conception based off of? They are (were?) at 3% vs 6% average, on small absolute numbers. Not great but certainly within margin of forgiveness. My conception is based on the scene as a whole, which is extremely international. Look at the public personalities in crypto vs. the wider VC tech scene. It's possible Coinba…

> which is extremely international

Racism against Africans can be found internationally, but in this case we are talking specifically African-Americans. Being international does not mean diverse in this specific way, it just means diverse in terms of nationality. For a good example, as the article and many have highlighted, asian representation is not an issue at Coinbase. Racism isn't generalized but specific to races and cultures. A person can be prejudice to just one category or many categories.

> the mechanics of crypto themselves prevent racial, gender, socioeconomic bias

mechanics and community are not one in the same, and crypto is still plenty susceptible to discrimination for any transactions that begin off-network (most all, humans are social creatures). While the mechanics help a small edge case or two, I don't really see any meaningful difference. What's the real material racism that crypto stops that other forms of payment or speculative trading fall victim to?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#419

Post by tetrometal »

vmception wrote: post #346
caffeine wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it racist or sexist to not to be interested in "inclusion" (which actually means "quotas", right?) I would think that progressive activism is the minority rather than the default view. Isn't it the racially discriminatory stance to make decisions based on race? I think most rational people would rather make decisions purely on competence and facts, not identity.

Inclusion doesnt mean quotas. Say that 30 times real fast and ask a new question

And yet you'll find numerous comments in this thread using disproportionate population statistics to erroneously declare bias and bigotry.

Sure sounds like quotas are what is desired.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#420

Post by remote_phone »

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

I’ve never worked in a company in Silicon Valley (I’m up to over 10 now over 20 years) where racism would just be silently tolerated. Never. I would certainly speak up against a manager who was casually racist or wouldn’t promote a good black engineer, knowing full well I might have to quit.

I’m sure racism exists but that type of overt racism that this article suggests, in the middle of SF especially in tech, is hard to believe.

So I take the accounts of some sort of systemic racism within Coinbase with a lot of skepticism. Especially the account of the support people who were forced to move to Portland. It sounds like all except one person was forced to move to Portland and both white and black people were asked. There’s a lot missing in that accusation which makes me think they are twisting things out of proportion.

I would love a more detailed account or talking with others. Could there be racists working in Coinbase? Sure. But this article doesn’t cover enough for me to not be skeptical without getting both sides of the story.

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