My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone • Hacker News Board

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#411

Post by derangedHorse » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 5:26 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #281

disown wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did no one besides you read the article? FTA: "My husband and I said she could have a phone when she turned 14..." People are arguing about everything from extended school hours, excessive homework to climate change in this thread. Could it be that the daughter was raised in a highly sheltered environment and once she hit puberty, she had other interests besides collages, jewelry and sewing? I wrote this in another c…

That might be true, if electronic gadgets were the same as previous obsessions. But they're different. They change from second to second, providing a level of stimulation unprecedented in human experience. It's possible we're not going to adapt well to this e-world. There's no reason to think an evolved ape has the wiring to make the transition without trauma. Imagine if the iPhone were heroin. Would we be so casual…

iPhones are just a medium for information. In my opinion it shouldn't matter how you access information, the type of information being accessed is what's most important. "Spending too much time" on a phone shouldn't be the top priority, what they're doing with their phones is what should be looked after.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#412

Post by dang » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 5:37 AM UTC

skee0083 wrote: post #82

God what an uptight protestant asshole. Just give the girl a phone you aweful chud.

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 5:41 AM UTC

adrianb wrote: post #280

lqet wrote: post #239

> I realize with horror that she’s spent nine hours on the phone that day. She was only awake at 11. > My daughter doesn’t make collages or jewelry or sew anymore. A child who used to read in the bath won’t pick up a book unless threatened with the loss of her phone. > Getting her to make a card for a family member — something she once did for fun — is like getting her to clean her room > Yet still, each day is a bat…

Honestly, so much of this sounded familiar to me ... but from my own teenage years. My parents were appalled at the amount of time I was spending at a MS-DOS PC (not only playing games but also learning programming). So I'd say that no, it's not that phones are like crack. There seems to be a disconnect on the parent's expectations when children discover the possibilities of a technology that's unfamiliar to them. In…

There is a substantive difference between a computer and a phone; only one is carried with you every single second of the day. Until you account for the drastic difference in how they can be used, it's pretty hard to equate your experience with a computer to a kid's experience today with a smart phone.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#414

Post by vcxy » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 5:47 AM UTC

ttul wrote: post #96

sequoia wrote: post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

I have done home schooling and regular public schooling. If you can afford to have a parent be at home full time with your kids, you are amongst the wealthiest in the world. You are fortunate.

As someone who grew up in a fire trap of a falling apart trailer that was 25 years older than me deep in the Appalachian mountains, generally what most would consider poor as hell for an American, I was homeschooled. You can try and convince me we were rich I guess, but it wouldn't work.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#415

Post by ajit_singh » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 5:53 AM UTC

This is a story of every second household. My wife's nieces are stuck on phone practically 24 hours. The day their internet balance gets exhausted is when they peep out of their phone screen and raise all hue and cry forcing their parents to recharge their phone immediately. Their sleep cycle doesn't exist and if their kid brother even if playfully hides their phone then he risks getting killed by them.

Another toddler in my extended family just had his eyesight treated because of addiction to mobile phone.

There is a reason why tech billionaires are sending their kids to schools devoid of screens. The general horde who are making these billionaires even richer by buying their phones and seeing virtue in being able to afford it should introspect the damage they are doing to their kids.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#416

Post by nikisweeting » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 6:31 AM UTC

nikisweeting wrote: post #149

martokus wrote: post #135

The forbidden fruit tastes best, right. My theory is that like everything this requires a balance and gradual introduction. Start early, let kids make mistakes, punish them for said mistakes, let them learn lessons. Enforcing super strict rules has never helped anyone I think. 1h a day is quite strict in my opinion especially if consumed in multiple sessions. If I had just started doing something and it took me 15min…

This seems to be a growing trend in parenting literature, enforce things more laxly, teach good habits, and let kids self-regulate. https://www.mother.ly/news/should-you-let-your-kids-eat-as-m...

nvm, sugar seems to be a special case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Post by 2020-3030 » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 6:36 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #354

sequoia wrote: post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

I've thought about schooling quite a lot, and I've come to the conclusion that a kid maybe needs 5 years of full time schooling to become proficient in reading, mathematics, civics and their government structure, and a high school level understanding of sciences. The rest of it is just government funded daycare. And that's what school is supposed to be for, right? To make a literate population capable of measuring an…

Would you want to elaborate about the calculations/estimates and share any top readings you've found?

In many cases, the purpose of education depends on socioeconomic class or what you, your parents, and/or your social groups decide to take for yourselves.

Nearly everybody promotes widespread basic literacy for social cohesion and basic employment functionality, but higher skills are more of a battle ground. Many people do not want others to progress past the basics for a variety of reasons. One is a fear of "overproduction of elites", another is fear of competition from fully developed people with nice critical thinking skills (cue up George Carlin and his comments on critical thinking).

I'm interested in all time estimates for educational programs, know about Finland's general time frames for youth education, don't know about other national norms, and am happy to hear any suggested readings or other ideas.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#418

Post by dijksterhuis » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 6:48 AM UTC

lishzen wrote: post #221

dijksterhuis wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a bit like saying addictive drugs themselves aren't a problem. I mean... They're not. They're inanimate f----- objects. They've never maliciously set out to cause someone harm because they're inanimate f----- objects. They don't have an understanding of the concept of morals or ethics because they're inanimate f----- objects. When I ingest them into my body -- that's when all hell breaks loose. They become a…

You know, technology doesn't just materialize spontaneously, it is made with a human purpose and that purpose (with all the subjectivity of everyone that participates in creating and fostering the technology) is imbued in those inanimate objects. When you use technology it guides you in its intended use according to its purpose, when you open a door by its handle, when you put your headphones on. Phones and youtube s…

I agree on some of your points, but you've missed what I'm getting at here it seems.

I'm saying that it's not the software's fault. In the immortal words of Philip K Dick: "dont blame the drug dude".

Blaming some faceless, mythical "they" gets everyone exactly nowhere. It doesn't solve anything.

There's a bigger question that everyone could be asking...

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#419

Post by sjy » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #368

sjy wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many HN readers earn a living from programming skills they developed by exploring computers aimlessly as kids in the 1990s and 2000s. I’m a Duolingo addict who has used the app daily for more than three years, so I do think it’s a fun way to build basic language skills. But no matter how much time I spend in the app, I won’t learn how it works or get the ability to change, modify or develop it. The learning experienc…

> But no matter how much time I spend in the app, I won’t learn how it works or get the ability to change, modify or develop it. Who cares? Just because you and many others on HN learned some stuff from fiddling with some computers doesn't mean that learning a language is lesser. "Ah, you aren't doing things that I did as a kid that lead to my high income! You're trash, kid! Git gud!"

My point isn’t about coding versus learning languages, it’s about open-ended creative activities versus ad-sponsored iOS games. Don’t get me wrong, I like playing the games too!

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Post by thu2111 » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 10:14 AM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #405

ksec wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Got his phone and now is addicted Isn't watching educational videos on YouTube exactly the thing most of us ( parents ) would want?

It seems more like he was watching educational videos on YouTube before getting a phone, and has since become addicted to other phone things?

Parents always worry like this. Mine used to worry I was "addicted" to programming on the home PC. I'd say, no mum. I don't go outside and frolic in the fields like a Victorian-era child because we live in the middle of a giant housing estate in the North West of England where it's always cold and pissing with rain. My friends live a car drive away and we aren't into football, which is the only thing available to do outside around here, plus I read most of the interesting books in the house already, I've grown out of cartoons, the computer is more interesting than children's TV and definitely more interesting than homework, most of which is of obviously marginal utility when I become an adult.

Or at least that's what I would have said, if I'd been articulate enough to know how.

The child in this article doesn't sound "addicted" to her phone. It sounds like the wealth of social, creative and interesting activities available through it are just far more interesting than playing dolls with her mum. Maybe it's tough for her mum to accept that her daughter is growing up, but she had to grow out of that at some point - it was inevitable that something would replace it. Would she prefer if it had been TV, like it was for prior generations?