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UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

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Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that study done before everyone had an internet connection?

All studies ever have been done before everyone had an internet connection.

So is household book count even a valid metric any more, since quite a lot of the world has more information at their fingertips than ever before?

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#412
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who went to one of those “pure test based” NYC schools: this is not the testament that you think it is. The number of Black and Hispanic students at Stuyvesant and Bronx Science was an order of magnitude higher in the 1970s; the current demographics are a consequence of paid preparation being a reliable way to score highly on the SHSAT.

It’s amazing that people don’t realise this. I always think back to the study that showed the amount of books in a household was a strong predictor for IQ. Background matters a whole lot, but high performance people don’t want to hear it, because they want to feel like it’s all their own credit. Nope. Just like money, there’s also an intellectual family bank that gets inherited. And it’s not genes, it’s access to kno…

>the amount of books in a household was a strong predictor for IQ. Background matters a whole lot...

That doesn't follow at all. IQ is correlated with parental IQ, due to genetics. Equally plausible, if not more so, than "books cause high IQ" is "high IQ causes books". Smart people a) like to read, and b) have smart children. I don't think it's likely that kids are boosting their IQ scores by cracking open their parent's book collection.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#413
post #329
post #65

Don't know if I'm just jaded -- but I'm seriously not bothered by people making large donations to a university to have their kid admitted. It's a transaction which benefits the university and the student. Granted -- it should be above board and there should be formal policies. Not justifying the specific actions in this case just curious at the outrage.

It would be better to just directly tax the rich to pay to educate the poor.

It would be interesting to see how elite private schools would be effected if all public universities were free.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#414
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throughout my academic career, I've met quite a few brilliant mathematicians with no interest in such competitions. And quite a few "goes to competitions" folks with little interest in higher pursuits. Placing too much faith in any measure is fraught

I’m not saying it’s the only measure we should have. But in the context of the chain this was in I was feeling a sort of “does it really matter if we can separate these people” and I just wanted to illustrate that in actual competitions that discriminate to this level you get a meaningful difference out of it. Now, whether that is an effective indicator of success…I’m not completely sure. A lot of the math competitio…

> A lot of the math competition winners I know are doing startups and HFT, so there’s that.

That's in line with my experience, too. Selecting olympiads is a preference for highly competitive people. In math, at least, collaboration is much more important.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect students are not “freaks”.

On the other hand, a Mensa gathering (not a member, myself) is one of the few situations I've been in that was hard to characterize as anything other than freakshow on earth. Shows that you can maximize a single dimension so much that you are left with people incapable of communication. Similarly, an organization of students maximizing academic performance has a certain vibe that definitely doesn't feel "perfect". It…

Mensa is for those who are insecure about their intelligence and like the idea that they can easily rank themselves above others with a number designed to check if you're mentally handicapped. I'm not surprised they can't communicate.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All studies ever have been done before everyone had an internet connection.

So is household book count even a valid metric any more, since quite a lot of the world has more information at their fingertips than ever before?

Book count being a predictor isn't the same thing as book count being the cause. It is likely that instead, book count is an easy to measure attribute of a household which has many other correlative factors that contribute to success.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a Mensa gathering (not a member, myself) is one of the few situations I've been in that was hard to characterize as anything other than freakshow on earth. Shows that you can maximize a single dimension so much that you are left with people incapable of communication. Similarly, an organization of students maximizing academic performance has a certain vibe that definitely doesn't feel "perfect". It…

Mensa is for those who are insecure about their intelligence and like the idea that they can easily rank themselves above others with a number designed to check if you're mentally handicapped. I'm not surprised they can't communicate.

I always thought to myself, what if I take the test and pass it? Then what?

If I fail, that's easy. I lick my wounds and go home.

But if I pass? The shape of the distribution -- basically slicing off one end of a bell curve -- means that in all likelihood, I would be at the lower end of the IQ scale within the group, even if at the upper end within the overall population.

So I'd be taking a test and paying money for the privilege of being the dumbest person in the room. It hardly seemed attractive to me.

Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#419
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different, though maybe native English speakers will struggle because there is no equivalent of "é". "et", "è", "ai" are all pronounced the same. Similar to the "e" in "best". For "é" and "er" I struggle to find a definite English equivalent sound. Sometimes "a" is close, but it depends on the accent of the speaker. Maybe the best example is just the last "é" when pronouncing "Beyoncé" or "fiancée"

> "e" in "best". But I pronounce chachet nothing like the e in best. It seems much more similar to a french "é" This is how I pronounce it: https://www.google.com/search?q=cachet+pronunciation&oq=cach...

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Re: UC Berkeley inappropriately admitted students as favors to donors

#420
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "e" in "best". But I pronounce chachet nothing like the e in best. It seems much more similar to a french "é" This is how I pronounce it: https://www.google.com/search?q=cachet+pronunciation&oq=cach...

Then you don't pronounce it well :D The link you gave me looks like someone with a strong English accent trying to pronounce French (which make sense for an AI)

The link is right, it's pronounced "cash, eh?". Which is basically the same way you'd pronounced "caché" in French.
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