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Scrollbar Blindness

svenkadak.com

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Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#411

Post by asciimov »

ziml77 wrote: post #342
asciimov wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features. I'm in my mid-30's and I find Apple awful at discoverability. Take using Apple Pay. I don't use it often, but covid has had me wanting to. I can't ever seem to remember what sort of hand waving I need to do to get it open. I seem to occasionally bring it up when I don't want to. (It's triple press the home button when the display i…

30 here. On my iPad, if I bring up an app in the floating view, I often have to rediscover how to dismiss it. I just tried to do it now and this is how it went: My first instinct was to flick it up from the bottom, but that brings up the recents switcher. Next instinct was to try flicking it off to the right, but it just moves a bit and springs back. While trying more times to fight the spring I noticed a short bar a…

I wish I knew how that floating window thing worked, cause like you I can manage to open it when I don't want it and can't get it to go away.

I keep meaning to look for a good iPad tutorial, to see how to do all this stuff.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#412

Post by asciimov »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #391
asciimov wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features. I'm in my mid-30's and I find Apple awful at discoverability. Take using Apple Pay. I don't use it often, but covid has had me wanting to. I can't ever seem to remember what sort of hand waving I need to do to get it open. I seem to occasionally bring it up when I don't want to. (It's triple press the home button when the display i…

You don't need to "open" it. You set the phone next to the terminal and the card comes up when radio contact is made.

Huh... I'll try that next time. I had no idea it would do that. Again, this is a discoverability problem.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#413

Post by asciimov »

recursive wrote: post #405
mixmastamyk wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to "open" it. You set the phone next to the terminal and the card comes up when radio contact is made.

So you have to sit there and type your credit card into your phone at the checkout? You can't enter it in advance?

No, gotta put your credit card info into the wallet app before use as it needs to verify it's your account. Also, Apple Pay doesn't accept all cards. My main card isn't accepted, which is sad.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#414

Post by asciimov »

dehrmann wrote: post #248
asciimov wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features. I'm in my mid-30's and I find Apple awful at discoverability. Take using Apple Pay. I don't use it often, but covid has had me wanting to. I can't ever seem to remember what sort of hand waving I need to do to get it open. I seem to occasionally bring it up when I don't want to. (It's triple press the home button when the display i…

Good games are pretty good at discoverability like this. I remember playing GTA IV or V and if I hadn't been using some skill, it surfaces tips. Apple has to be slightly more careful because it can't just spam you with "Double-tap to Apple Pay," but recognizing that you just used Apple Pay, but you unlocked you phone and did it from Wallet might mean there's a new skill they can show you.

I was thinking about this as I recently started playing "Ultimate NES Remix" They are quick mini-games made from old nes games. These quick little mini-games really make good tutorials on how to actually play the real game they are taken.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#415

Post by asciimov »

syspec wrote: post #221
asciimov wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features. I'm in my mid-30's and I find Apple awful at discoverability. Take using Apple Pay. I don't use it often, but covid has had me wanting to. I can't ever seem to remember what sort of hand waving I need to do to get it open. I seem to occasionally bring it up when I don't want to. (It's triple press the home button when the display i…

Double press

I could have sworn it would only do it for triple press, but no, it seems to work now with only two. Thanks for the info.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#416

Post by Macuyiko »

andi999 wrote: post #245
frereubu wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. I once had a really interesting conversation with an accessibility person who said in passing "accessibility is for everyone ". He didn't make a big point of it, but it really stuck with me, and I'm always reminded of it when I see things like this. I've been working in the digital world since the late 90s, keep everything up to date, have a recent iPhone etc. etc. etc. and I'm stil occasionall…

Got a new android phone (i think it was huawei), couldnt answer calls. I was thinking I as always has to press or slide the green phone icon, but actually had to move the center grey icon on the green phone icon.

I was planning to reply to your parent comment that discoverability has always been an issue for me when I work with Apple devices. Whenever I use my wife's iPhone or Mac for a couple of minutes, I get frustrated because everything is all over the place, none of the apps work well together, and everything is hidden.

Back on Android, (or Windows, or Linux), it makes sense, whereas she loses her way. Just to point out, a part of discoverability I guess is familiarity with the underlying principles the UI follows as well.

To add two more points to this. I think there's one thing platforms in general got very right: simple touch controls. My one year old is discovering that sliding fingers across a screen, touching and pinching (the three basics) does stuff. Hidden menus, press-and-hold, and so on is secondary. Second, icons are something which is wrong. You need to guess their initial meaning, and translate badly in conversations, like recently with my mom: "press the rectangle with four arrows pointing out of it" (fullscreen or whatever it was).

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#417

Post by ggm »

The microsecond of time which is the quantum between seeing the scroll element, moving focus and it going away again before you can grab it ....

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#418

Post by armandososa »

reaperducer wrote: post #163
supernova87a wrote: post #18

I have to pile onto the criticism of the hidden scroll bars, and other similar features (like the hidden buttons of PDF viewers now, such as in Chrome). Discoverability is a problem. For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features, these things can be utterly mind-boggling and frustrating. Even I was stumped for a good minute the first time trying to print/save/download a PDF when…

For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features You don't even have to be elderly. The 20-somethings in the office (pre-pandemic) had no idea that on an inconsistent smattering of Apple apps, if you pull down, a hidden search bar magically appears. How did that conversation go? Dev: Where do you want the search bar to go? Designer: Put it somewhere that no one will ever see it, or…

I am a UI spelunker. I right-click, option-click, dobule-clicke, force-press every little interface element and I am so happy when the software delights me with a surprising feature.

I type the konami code as soon as I discover a web app supports keyboard input. I have no problem pulling-to-reveal and shaking to undo. In fact, it makes me feel awesome to know all this little secrets and have people all like: Wait! how did you do that?

But when I design software I don't do it for people like me. I want my users to feel awesome and delighted without being UI spelunkers. Good design doesn't make you think.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#419

Post by mixmastamyk »

asciimov wrote: post #412
mixmastamyk wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to "open" it. You set the phone next to the terminal and the card comes up when radio contact is made.

Huh... I'll try that next time. I had no idea it would do that. Again, this is a discoverability problem.

Way before I ever tried, I had seen videos of RFID "contact less" demos where you tap the device to the machine. Like at a gas pump. The icon usually gives you a clue to tap as well, but I suppose you have to imagine it is even a theoretical possibility.

I don't think there is way to make it discoverable without a big sign saying tap here ↓. Not from the phone anyway. Just something children will see and in the future never think twice about.

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