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Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

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Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#411

Post by thethethethe »

throwawayWSQA wrote: post #406
thethethethe wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how is being an anesthesiologist relevant? Uhhhh anesthesiologists are experts in administratering sedatives to humans safely. The connection here seems pretty obvious to me...

If you re-read my comment, you'll see that "administrating sedatives to humans safely" is specifically what I consider irrelevant.

You comment is pendatic and assumed that OP is commenting specifically on the ethics of this practice. OP could just be commenting on the safety of the practice, where their expertise is highly relavent.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#412

Post by scarface74 »

burfog wrote: post #380
scarface74 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But surprisingly, even in “good schools”, when the same offense happens by minorities vs. non minorities, it is criminalized when done by minorities. I was amazed at the stories my son told me about kids getting caught with drugs, hitting a coach, vandalizing property and all that happened was that the parents got called and a few days of suspension and the police were never involved. Because “kids will be kids”. Of…

That's a different school, run by different people. It does not prohibit attendance by students of any race. The only bias I see is that of the parents, who pay a housing premium to avoid being associated with some kinds of people. The local people choose the school board, which then chooses the school policy and administration. School policy is limited by what is allowed and by what seems to work. If the parents usu…

No, same district. Different punishment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/09/03/police-pun...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#413

Post by voxic11 »

GhostVII wrote: post #132

Pretty much everywhere in the world, paramedics are allowed to inject sedatives when treating a patient. Ketamine is used in many places (the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Austria) by paramedics, because it is very safe relative to other sedatives. So the main concern should whether or not police are ordering EMS to administer it when it is not actually required (police do not administer it themselves), since I don't th…

If you want the evidence that this happens frequently read the MPD civilian oversight report[0] on the subject.

In my opinion the main issue is the "excited delirium" diagnosis. One of the main symptoms of "excited delirium" is "Police Noncompliance"[1] which makes the police an essential part of its diagnosis.

[0] https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/File/1853/Pre-Hospit...

[1] https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/media/publications/acep_repo...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#414

Post by [deleted] »

Natsu wrote: post #204
quadrifoliate wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 cases across three years in one city, where some of those cases were just paramedics asking for a second opinion, does not seem to indicate a very widespread issue across the US, especially when the city being investigated is know to have a bad police department. First of all, it's a big jump from "the article only mentions 8 cases across the US" to "there were only 8 cases across the US". The case of Elijah McClai…

> First of all, it's a big jump from "the article only mentions 8 cases across the US" to "there were only 8 cases across the US". The parent does not make that jump, it merely cites 8 cases over 3 years in one city and asks if there isn't more evidence. And that does not even allege police directing paramedics to do things (as claimed in another thread here), just people discussing the situation with each other.

[deleted]

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#415

Post by fuzxi »

garaetjjte wrote: post #396
fuzxi wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or simply any job that requires checking IDs. Bouncer, bartender, cashier in a store that sells alcohol/cigarettes, etc.

Huh, I have never seen weight specified on any ID.

Every US ID and driver's license I've ever seen (and I've seen many) list height and weight.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#416

Post by scarface74 »

baybal2 wrote: post #404
sneak wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the police in your country have guns? (Trick question. The police in every country, even Japan, have guns.) If an armed attacker breaks into your home, would not the first thing you do be to call someone to bring a gun over quickly to protect you and bring an end to the risk? This is no different than keeping a fire extinguisher in your home versus relying 100% on the fire brigade to protect you. Firearms are safe…

> Do the police in your country have guns? (Trick question. The police in every country, even Japan, have guns.) No, please do your research

In the case of the US, if the criminals have guns and the law abiding people don’t, where does that leave the law abiding people?

It’s just like what happened when Reagan was the Governor of California. As soon as Black people started peacefully “exercising their second amendment rights”, both Reagan and the NRA were all for gun control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Even now while the liberals are fighting for more gun control, conservatives are arming up - especially in the South.

The far right is getting armed while the far left is talking about “give peace a chance”.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#417

Post by baybal2 »

scarface74 wrote: post #416
baybal2 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do the police in your country have guns? (Trick question. The police in every country, even Japan, have guns.) No, please do your research

In the case of the US, if the criminals have guns and the law abiding people don’t, where does that leave the law abiding people? It’s just like what happened when Reagan was the Governor of California. As soon as Black people started peacefully “exercising their second amendment rights”, both Reagan and the NRA were all for gun control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act Even now while the liberals are fighti…

I mean there is quite a number of countries where regular police are prohibited from carrying firearms, or at least don't carry them anywhere so casually.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#418

Post by burfog »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #308
throwawayWSQA wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. "Soldiers use even better bullets" Almost universally not true. The Geneva convention prohibits many types of bullets that are allowed for civilian use. Hollow points, for example. And there are good reasons why they're allowed for civilians and not war. 2. It's not fair to give us a sanctimonious lecture about how great your country's police procedures are without stating your country. Put up, or drop the lecture…

I believe soldiers have bullets with a lot more kinetic energy behind them than bullets fired by ordinary police guns; that said, I'm not a gun person, so maybe a police small arms shot is more effective against people than one fired by an assault rifle. Besides, the policy I described is what (AFAIK) most of Europe implements at the moment (might be all of Europe even), including Germany. I don't quite see why stati…

Police small arms are equal to military small arms, but usage is different.

Police get better ammunition for destroying human flesh, due to treaty restrictions on the military. Police can get all of the military small arms ammunition.

Police normally leave rifles locked up in their cars.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#419

Post by burfog »

scarface74 wrote: post #412
burfog wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different school, run by different people. It does not prohibit attendance by students of any race. The only bias I see is that of the parents, who pay a housing premium to avoid being associated with some kinds of people. The local people choose the school board, which then chooses the school policy and administration. School policy is limited by what is allowed and by what seems to work. If the parents usu…

No, same district. Different punishment. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/09/03/police-pun...

Still, you elected a school board that would permit that difference, and you chose where to live.

If telling parents gets students under control at one school, and it doesn't work at the other school, punishment will be different. You could get to that policy by trial and error, without any knowledge of the racial makeup of the student body.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#420

Post by JohnBooty »

burfog wrote: post #402
JohnBooty wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course "the media" focuses on incidents where cops abuse their power. "The media" also exalts policemen and soldiers as heroes, with countless reminders to thank our "heroes" and millions of hours of Hollywood entertainment devoted to showcasing heroic soldiers and cops. Much of the media denounces the protests as well. A different sort of bias comes into play with word choice, using "victims" to refer to people w…

Do you think there are no black cops abusing their power, or that there are no white victims? It's hidden from you by the media because it doesn't fit the narrative of racist white cops abusing innocent black victims. Statistics paint a different picture. Given that there is a police response to crime, a white criminal is more likely to be shot by the police. I have seen plenty of public outcry over police violence w…

    Do you think there are no black cops abusing 
    their power, or that there are no white victims?
I do not think that. Additionally, literally nobody is claiming that. Anywhere.
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