Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

kevq.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 552 posts

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#411

Post by boomboomsubban »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #265
yiyus wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is not a faith based system. If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments.

Why not conduct your own experiment, using Science? 1. Start with a hypothesis, that "dark mode is less comfortable for me than light mode". 2. Design an experiment: find the sites that you use most. Use them for 10 minutes each in light mode and dark mode. Write down your impressions. 3. Build a conclusion: was your hypothesis correct? Was it partially correct for some sites? Then you can adapt your behaviour accord…

>It makes no sense to me to trust an unknown number of studies over my personal experience

Your personal experience is incapable of judging your performance in visual-acuity tasks and proofreading tasks, or determining the level of eyestrain caused when using light or dark mode.

Meanwhile, the scientists aren't trying to change your mind over which one is "more comfortable." They are trying to determine why you find something more comfortable and how well your the various options perform.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#412

Post by PascLeRasc »

floatrock wrote: post #66
Scarbutt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just change the brightness of the monitor twice a day.

...buried 2 or 3 menu layers deep, using a magic sequence of three buttons to handle all the up-down/left-right multi-level hierarchical menu navigation complexities. One of Apple's biggest innovations imho was to make brightness +/- two of the default keyboard buttons. Every keyboard should replace their F-keys with brightness by default (seriously, who uses F-keys? It's wasted real estate.) TV's should do this too.…

If your monitor supports DDC [1] you can control the brightness with MonitorControl [2]. It's fantastic. However it's basically impossible to figure out before buying if monitors do or don't support DDC. In general Dell Ultrasharps do, and I was surprised when the old Acer I'm on now did as well.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel [2] https://github.com/MonitorControl/MonitorControl

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#413

Post by taneq »

scott_s wrote: post #348
taneq wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're telling me I'm wrong and I actually like bright mode more than dark mode? We are literally discussing my subjective experiences here . And you're telling me I'm wrong. About my subjective experiences. Ohhh-kay.

No. They were pointing out it's possible that you prefer dark mode, even though it may not have the benefits you believe it does. Your preference may be more about aesthetic taste than a physiological response - and that's okay.

That's actually a pretty fair point. What I like may not be measurably easier for me.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#414

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

shawnz wrote: post #408
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as we're talking about something that relates to eyestrain, I don't think we can discount how the GP feels. If you don't feel well you likely aren't going to perform well. If your eyes hurt, you are going to want to stop working. If I had to stare at a bright white screen all day, I wouldn't get the task done because it hurts my eyes. Common sense. Yet another study where it's trying to trump opinion with a st…

Even if dark mode "feels" better that still doesn't imply it actually causes less eye strain. Without data it's possible OP's choice could be driven just by aesthetic preferences and they don't realize it.

I don't see in the study linked in the article where it attributes light mode to more eye strain.

I found where blue light causes eye strain, and it most certainly does, I immediately notice the difference when using a blue light filter on my monitor, but you can have both dark mode and a blue light filter enabled.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020759/

Anecdotally, dark mode causes my eyes and my partner's eyes less strain.

You can notice by how dry and red they get, as well as the headaches, it's not rocket science.

EDIT (reached my post limit)

@shawnz: No, the light physically hurts. It's immediate. It's not because of the aesthetics.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#415

Post by taneq »

aspenmayer wrote: post #382
taneq wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I mean, serious question - aren't they they same thing? What IS our subjective experience if not our conscious estimation of how we experienced the thing? Is it possible to think you're enjoying something when really you're not, and if so then what the heck does that even mean?

You can be wrong about your perceptions, if you’ve read your Descartes. Dark mode could be more aesthetically pleasing, and yet could also be less legible. I have personally experienced this. Dark mode is hard to read and find my place in compared to light mode. The white space helps me absorb the information and use it effectively. I say this while I still think dark mode looks better for many apps. I just choose li…

I've never had issues with legibility in dark mode but then I apparently have very large pupils (to the point where when I got contact lenses the optician warned me about lens flares / halos) so maybe I don't get some of the benefits of day mode.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#416

Post by shawnz »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #414
shawnz wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if dark mode "feels" better that still doesn't imply it actually causes less eye strain. Without data it's possible OP's choice could be driven just by aesthetic preferences and they don't realize it.

I don't see in the study linked in the article where it attributes light mode to more eye strain. I found where blue light causes eye strain, and it most certainly does, I immediately notice the difference when using a blue light filter on my monitor, but you can have both dark mode and a blue light filter enabled. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020759/ Anecdotally, dark mode causes my eyes and my part…

You measured the dryness/redness of your/your partner's eyes after trying dark and light mode? Or is it just that occasionally you or your partner get dry/red eyes and the most memorable association was using light mode beforehand (and it's memorable because you don't like the aesthetics of it)?

I don't think this is "rocket science" but that doesn't mean it is handwavingly obvious either

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#417

Post by aasasd »

ryan93 wrote: post #336
philliphaydon wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 34. Had 20/20 vision all my life. Until around April this year from being in lockdown and stuck at home working more due to not going out and such. I felt like I’m getting eye strain. And difficulty focusing. I ended up with glasses 3 weeks ago for “computer vision” I can’t wear them walking around the house as it makes me feel dizzy. But in front of the computer it makes a difference. Think I’m gonna try find a…

I had to switch from contacts to glasses after leaving college and getting an office job. My eye doctor said staring at screens causes focusing issues.

To my knowledge, eye muscles may get sort-of ‘cramps’ where they get ‘stuck’ in the same flex configuration as they were, if you focus on the same nearby distance for hours and hours. Purportedly, it's even classified as a distinct kind of myopia (the only one that's fixable with exercise), but dunno how legit that is. What I know for certain, though, is that regular exercises that move the eyes and the focus relieve the strain a lot. Rotate the eyes, move side to side, move the focus back and forth, that sort of thing. Also focus on stuff outside the window more often.

As for contact lenses, afaik they're trash with computers because they make the eye dryer in addition to what you already get due to blinking more rarely. At least that's how it was back in the day, when I didn't last more than a month or so with contacts at computers.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#418

Post by radium3d »

I prefer dark mode as far as eye strain goes. My goal is to reduce the amount of light I'm staring at since I stare into a screen for a large portion of my day. Do take note of you are a designer though that I prefer a gray text black background. White text on black is too much contrast in most cases for me.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#419

Post by ClumsyPilot »

guykdm wrote: post #264
yiyus wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is not a faith based system. If you doubt about the rigor of some study, by all means point the errors you find. In the meantime, I will trust those scientific studies more than subjective opinions in hackernews comments.

While this commentator invested far less effort than the scientists in reaching his result about dark mode, he also has no benefits from you choosing to believe him or not. You are in fact choosing to see the brand "science" as something transcendental that doesn't concern any incentive structures, which if false and opens you to lots of manipulation.

I am just wondering does the author alao distrust science when it comes to medical treatments and the law of gravity, or does is his distrust highly selective.

Re: Is Dark Mode Such a Good Idea?

#420

Post by sildur »

Veen wrote: post #201
sildur wrote: post #195

> A nice dark screen with light text is easier to read, right? Well, according to multiple studies, that’s wrong apparently. That was really funny. "Do you like chocolate? Well, according to multiple studies, you don't apparently." How can a study tell me what is comfortable for me? Are we going crazy? We are starting to treat studies like little gods which tell us what to do, and apparently, what to like.

> How can a study tell me what is comfortable for me? Unless you are an emigre from Betelgeuse or a particularly intelligent octopus, you have eyes that work in the same way as everyone else's eyes. The biology and physiology of the human eye are well understood. Chocolate is an excellent comparison. Whether you like chocolate is a matter of taste. But you don't get to claim that eating chocolate for breakfast, lunch…

But something like “easier to read” is also relative. The brightness of a white background is hurtful for me and I dislike it.

So, despite the studies, for me white over black is easier to read. Maybe my performance is bad by using white over black. But it would be even worse with black over white, as I would spend all the time squinting at the screen.

Post reply on HN