I'm resigning from my job at Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#411

Post by xphilter » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #391

xphilter wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don’t understand how this ignorant of a comment still gets on HN. What y’all are talking about is “The Internet” where all the trash and racist are free to make whatever content they want. What everyone else is talking about is private companies that publish trash based on recommendation engines, timeline visibility algorithms, sharing functions, and whole other bunch of programmed ways to “increase engage…

>> I honestly don’t understand how this ignorant of a comment still gets on HN. What y’all are talking about is “The Internet” where all the trash and racist are free to make whatever content they want. Oh, the irony. Racism is protected speech. Hate is protected speech. You seem not to understand free speech so you want it suppressed - it sounds a lot like the Inquisition in good ol' times.

Where am I calling for suppression? I’m saying I don’t want it promoted via FB’s algorithms. The internet is open, just like the ol’ public square. As much as I hate 4chan, those idiots can still post. But FB is not the internet and never has been. It has been letting hate run amok and then promoting it. Imagine if every time I went online Comcast kept track of all the sites I went to then would recommend sites it thinks I would like. You get how that Comcast is different than the Comcast today? (Ignoring the fact that Comcast does keep track of what I visit).

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#412

Post by zepto » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

artsyca wrote: post #286

zepto wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you advise us on how to change such systems from within?

Actually agile is supposed to be a disruptive process that enables upward change but we keep doing it all wrong squeezing features out our asses when we should be making organizational changes. We should all know we're trying to change them and help each other, how else? Tell me you've never tried and failed due to "politics" but have you ever stuck your neck out even a little?

Your last question seems like a personal attack which is against HN guidelines.

I was responding to your claim that it was illegitimate to quit in protest, and that people should stay and change organizations from within.

Given this belief, I assumed you might have some insight you have about how to do this effectively. Maybe even examples of when it has been done?

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#413

Post by sizzle » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

He took a direct shot at Facebook's culture and it's highly effective PR, hopefully many others open their eyes on what they are supporting when they choose to execute orders from the top down and stay.

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#414

Post by xphilter » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #383

xphilter wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true at all. The content is filtered out according to their algorithms. They ditched the “see everything your friends are doing” feed a long time ago. Even the group and friend suggestions are tailored. https://about.fb.com/news/2018/01/news-feed-fyi-bringing-peo...

Reranking content does not mean FB is the one producing it out of nothing. Secondly what ranking you see is largely influenced by what you and your friends engage with.

Which is based on FB’s weighing of those factors...so either stop doing any ranking/recommendations and make FB a dumb pipe with no restrictions, or put guard rails on the ranking/recommendations so we don’t end up with extremists.

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#415

Post by artsyca » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

cycloptic wrote: post #401

artsyca wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree but there are many people there now who could use his help to fight for what they believe in. He's not just one guy trying to get some hair brained initiative passed. Our problem is we seek acceptance and agreement too much and don't fight for what others believe in on principle. We're all to blame but now we have one less person who can do anything about it. Look at the world from the outside in for on…

The peers are all jockeying for the same limited number of promotions. I don't know what the solution is, but protesting won't resolve what is fundamentally a conflict of interest.

Or perhaps a misalignment of incentives

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#416

Post by xphilter » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #387

xphilter wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don’t understand how this ignorant of a comment still gets on HN. What y’all are talking about is “The Internet” where all the trash and racist are free to make whatever content they want. What everyone else is talking about is private companies that publish trash based on recommendation engines, timeline visibility algorithms, sharing functions, and whole other bunch of programmed ways to “increase engage…

I am well aware, see you are upset that facebook is not filtering "the correct way", and facebook is promoting "the bad things" from your POV, and not promoting the "good things" from your POV. My statement is Facebook should not be doing any promotation at all, and people aurging over the level and type of filtering / promotion is the problem Facebook painted themselves into this corner by choosing what people will…

You’re sidestepping the discussion though. It is “when you avail yourself to FB, do we want FB to use its algorithms to push certain content.” I see two options: stop any ranking/recommendations and make FB a dumb pipe with no restrictions, or put guard rails on the ranking/recommendations so we don’t end up with extremists.

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#417

Post by bananamerica » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

0-_-0 wrote: post #410

bananamerica wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is overly cynical and also quite far fetched.

Is it though? Let's do the math: Number of Facebook employees: about 45k. Let's say half of them work in the US (20k). Let's assume people tand to stay at a job for 5 years on average and think about leaving for 6 months before they leave. That means there are 2000 Facebook employees thinking about leaving right now. Now, what is the probablity that if someone is already thinking about leaving they would take advanta…

This is obviously too complex for a quick calculation of that sort. This is not really something that math can enlighten. You’re conjecturing out of a bias towards the negative. We simply have no access to his mind, and the information that we have barely justify exploring the possibility of bad faith. In other words: you’re being cynical.

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#418

Post by johannes1234321 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

zarkov99 wrote: post #370

johannes1234321 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> -Allow users to customize what they want to see This means that Facebook has to provide a process to categorize posts into the categories. Facebook argues they don't want to do that categorization.

No it doesn't. The customization could be done based on the source (Always/never show government officials posts, for example) or the votes of a trusted entity (the WHO, The White House, CNN, your cool friend who knows what is going on, etc). Plenty of empty gas bags have been identified by their reaction to Pandemic but also plenty of people who were right, early (and widely mocked at the time). There is signal ther…

I shortened my quote, for context the GP post had these examples:

> e.g. "dont show me posts that glorify violence" or "only allow covid posts that match WHO guidelines" or "allow exceptions from political figures or of historical significance")

Glorifying violence isn't objective measurable.

How do you identify matches to WHO guidance (incl. satire, valuable critique, ...)

How exactly do you identify "political figures or of historical significance" sure, you can identify elected officials, but what about opposition leaders which often are not formally designated or cases where elections are disputed?

And to be clear: I think the stance of "we are neutral" is wrong. And I don't think this can be offloaded to the user, while Facebook stays "neutral".

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#419

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

yogthos wrote: post #409

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm. Language is not an immutable construct. It evolves. I can agree that words have meaning that has certain amount of life in it. For more recent example, think of how word gay changed. We use words to communicate. If you use words that are misunderstood by your potential audience, is it their fault for having different internal definition of a word or yours. You are trying to traslate your world into theirs. edit:…

Language is not a immutable, however the problem in US is precisely that people don't understand what fascism is. You have literal fascist organizations, you have white supremacy, you have tight coupling between the government and the military industrial complex, and so on. Everybody else in the world understands this, and it's time for people in US to start understanding what's happening in their country.

Having gone through versions of this conversation before, I can say that it is a lot easier to attempt to relate to something audience already understands instead of trying to spend valuable time fighting over the definition of fascism and whether it is left wing or right wing ideology ( never fails ).

I am not really disagreeing with you, but you are trying to fight against decades of fascist label being used as a catch all phrase. I believe in dealing with things as they are.

Re: I'm resigning from my job at Facebook

#420

Post by artsyca » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #412

artsyca wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually agile is supposed to be a disruptive process that enables upward change but we keep doing it all wrong squeezing features out our asses when we should be making organizational changes. We should all know we're trying to change them and help each other, how else? Tell me you've never tried and failed due to "politics" but have you ever stuck your neck out even a little?

Your last question seems like a personal attack which is against HN guidelines. I was responding to your claim that it was illegitimate to quit in protest, and that people should stay and change organizations from within. Given this belief, I assumed you might have some insight you have about how to do this effectively. Maybe even examples of when it has been done?

Oh c'mon when someone rage quits in protest these corporations have safeguards in place to prevent rogue actions. I'm surprised they didn't trigger a visit from the thought police given the high profile and instead let a potential bad actor remain on the premises a whole extra week?

And yes all our energies should be towards changing the organizations, as systems professionals, rather than competing on "look what I can do" while the world outside our gated communities crumbles.