Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

devblogs.microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 548 posts

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#411

Post by hart_russell »

simiones wrote: post #317
mcv wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Windows is a painful OS to use for anything other than gaming. Ideally, I'd like to see the exact opposite of this: run Linux with a Windows subsystem just for gaming.

Many companies, including the one I work for, have most development happening on Windows. It is far easier to manage for Enterprise use-cases, with all relevant services integrated and obtained from a single vendor. Not to mention that there are quite a few development environments for more obscure platforms that still only exist for Windows. Overall, since most development time is spent in an IDE, the OS is really o…

I’ve programmed in a professional capacity on macos, windows, and linux. Windows used to be the worst, but with WSL and VSCode, i would say it has overtaken macos in my mind, because WSL is better than using brew

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#412

Post by cycloptic »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #390
cycloptic wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source your games. Open source is the only practical way that existing distros are able to test and support the majority of packages that they ship. If you do that, the cost of supporting all those other things will fall on the distros, not on you, but you need to actually play ball with them and give them something workable that isn't an opaque binary blob that is illegal to redistribute, modify or reverse-engi…

> Open source your games. Open source is the only practical way that existing distros are able to test and support the majority of packages that they ship Which might be one of the reasons Linux Desktop is so awful to develop for.

The "Linux Desktop" is not and has never been a thing beyond a vague marketing term. What you're thinking of is a loose collection of unrelated projects. Pick a single stack and go with it and things get better.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#413

Post by simiones »

larrik wrote: post #392
simiones wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies, including the one I work for, have most development happening on Windows. It is far easier to manage for Enterprise use-cases, with all relevant services integrated and obtained from a single vendor. Not to mention that there are quite a few development environments for more obscure platforms that still only exist for Windows. Overall, since most development time is spent in an IDE, the OS is really o…

I disagree, Windows is very painful for me to use at a basic level compared to Linux. I would be very unlikely to take a job that forced me to develop under Windows.

The same is mostly true for me when trying to use a Linux desktop.

However, if I'm using IntelliJ or Emacs and Firefox, I don't really need to care what OS is running underneath too much.

Edit: of course, Linux and Mac are available for devs that prefer them. It's still much easier for IT to manage 7000 Windows desktops and a couple hundred Linux ones than it would be to manage 7000 Linux desktops.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#414

Post by traverseda »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #410
traverseda wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of linux desktop bullshit? Has it been getting worse?

No, it just isn't getting better. Any time you want to do something even remotely interesting, like install software that is actually up to date and therefore not in the repo, you have to jump through a bunch of hoops. One of my other usecases involved a device with only a 16GB internal disk, so naturally I would like to install applications to an external disk so they actually fit. This is usually trivial on Windows…

Hmm, that's fair. I'd encourage you to try something outside of the standard redhat/ubuntu distros. Manjaro is nice and is pretty much always up to date. Also has access to the AUR, so there are packages for pretty much everything. It's a lot easier to do interesting stuff.

LVM can make two disks appear like they're one, but of course if you remove any of them they both fail. Doesn't really solve the underlying "I want to install apps outside of the root partition" problem though.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#415

Post by freeone3000 »

bitcrazed wrote: post #172
hetspookjee wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with GPU accelerated development is quite horrible on Windows for anything other than the NVIDIA prepped docker container. There was always something missing or some drover was incompatible. In the long run I have always regretted developping Python on Windows, also often because whatever was developped was to be deployed on a Linux box. I do not think it's purely windows to blame here though. It's only…

Hi. PM on Windows & WSL here. Imagine if you could run AI/ML apps and tools that are coded to take advantage of DirectML on Windows and/or atop DirectML via WSL. Now you can run the tools you want and need in whichever environment you like ... on any (capable) GPU you like: You don't have to buy a particular vendor's GPU to run your code. If you're old like me and remember the dark ol' days when games shipped with sp…

Neither pytorch nor tensorflow support WinML, so this is going to be a bit of a stretch still, since CUDA is still the toolkit of choice for mainstream ML frameworks.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#416

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

cycloptic wrote: post #412
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open source your games. Open source is the only practical way that existing distros are able to test and support the majority of packages that they ship Which might be one of the reasons Linux Desktop is so awful to develop for.

The "Linux Desktop" is not and has never been a thing beyond a vague marketing term. What you're thinking of is a loose collection of unrelated projects. Pick a single stack and go with it and things get better.

....Which might be one of the reasons Linux Desktop is so awful to develop for.

You wonder why people ignore your platform? Saying it isn't actually a single platform and instead is dozens of different platforms just means each of those platforms is even less relevant. Saying you're not just one platform with 10% market share but actually 20 with 0.5% each doesn't make the case for shipping on Linux Desktop any better.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#417

Post by traverseda »

Valmar wrote: post #404
traverseda wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does logind depend on systemd?

It's part of the systemd project umbrella? It's part of the systemd monorepo? It uses libsystemd? Maybe it's simply easier to maintain this way? elogind exists, if you care. It exposes the DBus interfaces that logind supports for applications to call. Thus, environments like Gnome can be supported on non-systemd systems if they emulate and/or expose and implement the required DBus interfaces.

That's sort of the complaint, why I accused them of "doing their own weird version of EEE". When faced with a choice of "make everybody else do a whole bunch of work so that they're not forced to use your entire project-umbrella" or "make some minor changes to our architecture so things aren't as tightly coupled" they almost always choose the one that forces you to use systemd.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#418

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

cycloptic wrote: post #409
jaywalk wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the solution to a platform not making enough money to justify supporting it is... giving away your game for free! The self-centered attitude of your comment is astounding, but all too common in open source communities.

You don't have to give your game away for free. I urge you to look into how prominent open source companies are actually making money and think about how it can be applied to games. It's not an impossible reality. You claim I am being "self-centered" but the fact is if you don't provide something that the distros can work with and instead try to route around everybody and ship an untestable blob then that's your faul…

> You claim I am being "self-centered" but the fact is if you don't provide something that the distros can work with

Alternative view: distros don't provide a stable platform that developers can target.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#419

Post by mhd »

pjmlp wrote: post #377
computerex wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tooling they make for developers has always been top notch I have to emphatically disagree there. Up until recently Windows didn't even have a decent terminal app. As a developer I tend to shy away from Windows precisely because the *Nix alternatives offer a better development experience, from cli to package management and more.

Not every developer needs a terminal app to feel like one. In fact Mac OS also didn't have any until OS X.

Doesn't MPW count?

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#420

Post by wicket »

mwcampbell wrote: post #400
wicket wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like they are already at the "Extinguish" phase for email. Try reading this: https://lkml.org/lkml/2020/5/19/1527 :(

I think that's a bit hyperbolic. The Outlook team's choice to not do word wrapping in the plain-text version of an email is unfortunate, but defensible IMO, considering that most people use an email client that can display HTML email. And before the defenders of plain-text-only email chime in, HTML email has features that most people actually want. The world has moved on from the time when emails were displayed in fi…

I don't think it's hyperbolic. If someone has sent you an email in plain text with wrapped lines, your mail client will know this and it would be reasonable to assume that perhaps the sender may be using a mail client not capable of rendering HTML emails nor autowrapping long lines. It would be a sensible choice to format the reply in the same format as that of the email received.

By stating "HTML email has features that most people actually want. The world has moved on...", you seem to be implying that the primary method of communication of Linux kernel developers is irrelevant and their use-case for email is not important. In fact, the more I think about this, this is a classic example of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Post reply on HN