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Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

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Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#411
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dead people can't go back to work.

But there will be a lot more job openings for those that can.

Yeah, honestly, people always forget to note that the black plague resulted in significantly higher wages for peasants and artisans.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#412

Unemployment benefits have been significantly expanded under the Coronavirus aid bill. The benefit amounts will sound small if you're living in an expensive city like SF or Seattle, but $600/week from the federal government and a similar amount from state unemployment insurance means that unemployment benefits can pay up to an equivalent of $50-60K/year right now. That goes a long way in most parts of the country, es…

"unemployment benefits can pay up to an equivalent of $50-60K/year right now." Wow. It's bizarre one can neither create nor add value yet proceed to receive thousands of dollars for an extended period of time (often multiples more than they will ever "pay in" to the system). I know too many people already milking it before the pandemic (including family & friends). I accept that it is their personal choice and I don'…

hacker news is a hivemind. I don't agree with everything you say (one can argue there is economic value in staying home during an outbreak of a highly transmissible virus) but I do think you are right in a lot of ways (it's a perverse incentive, and unproductivity should not be subsidized in general).

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#413
post #344
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any reason to think we're not going to see the situation in NYC play out in numerous other US cities over the coming weeks and months?

Not really. I have been thinking its going to play out like China, Italy, Spain etc where certain regions take disproportionate hits. Texas and California don't seem to have been hit as hard as NY-NJ. So was just wondering if the unemployment filings have jumped equally in all 3.

Florida could worse, they just shut things down yesterday(!) and they have more cases than WA today which has been effectively shut down for a month or so.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#414
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”Joining some political death cult to sacrifice the weak and elderly portion of our population...isn't going to make the virus end any sooner” Barring the development of a vaccine (which is far from guaranteed, and a year or more away, in the best case), letting the virus sweep through the population is pretty much the only thing that would bring this to an end quickly. We could achieve herd immunity in a few months…

Letting it sweep through uncontrollably quickly by pretending it's business-as-normal out there will lead to many times more deaths due to hospital overutilization. Our current actions are focused on the goal of leveling the curve, not putting up a wall. There aren't armed guards outside our homes preventing us from leaving. The grocery stores are open. We can come into contact with others to order just about all goo…

Yeah, I get it. It was implicit in the point I was making: we’re explicitly trading time for lives.

Literally the fastest way to get this over with is to let it sweep through the population. More people might die if we did that, but it would get it over with quickly.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#415

Building on my analysis from last week: 1. This week's 6.6M new jobless claims represents ~4% of the estimated ~160-165M US Workforce. 2. This is incremental to the 3.3M new jobless claims filed week ending 3/21, totaling ~10M total jobless claims in the past 2 weeks. 3. The US unemployment rate was ~3.5% as of EOM February [1], so cumulatively that means we've hit ~10% unemployment as of EOW 3/28 (~10M incremental j…

This is just a personal opinion, but I think ~15% unemployment peak is far too optimistic.

I believe that 50-75% of restaurants will never reopen. 20-35% of small to mid-size hotels, venues, spas will declare bankruptcy within this year. Both employ a lot of people.

So I'm afraid the number is going to much higher, maybe even double.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#416
post #415

Building on my analysis from last week: 1. This week's 6.6M new jobless claims represents ~4% of the estimated ~160-165M US Workforce. 2. This is incremental to the 3.3M new jobless claims filed week ending 3/21, totaling ~10M total jobless claims in the past 2 weeks. 3. The US unemployment rate was ~3.5% as of EOM February [1], so cumulatively that means we've hit ~10% unemployment as of EOW 3/28 (~10M incremental j…

This is just a personal opinion, but I think ~15% unemployment peak is far too optimistic. I believe that 50-75% of restaurants will never reopen. 20-35% of small to mid-size hotels, venues, spas will declare bankruptcy within this year. Both employ a lot of people. So I'm afraid the number is going to much higher, maybe even double.

So much of this depends on how the administration handles this. I don't have great confidence based on how they've handled things so far.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding 3, upper estimates for the 2009 swine flu are north of 500k deaths and the 1918 Spanish flu is 50 million. Flus can be very deadly and the poster obviously did not intend to use the word in a diminutive way. You added that interpretation, knowing it is wrong, and then challenged it.

The whole post was playing down the effects of the current pandemic on society. The whole conclusion was that "a flu won't cause [society to break down]". So yes, the poster was using flu in a diminutive sense. And yes, flu is deadly and a lot worse than a lot of people (who've probably never had flu) realise. But even given that, even recent novel flu strains haven't stressed and shut down the global economy like th…

To be accurate, the government(s) have shut down the economy.

We had several options for how to respond to this, and chose the most invasive, drastic and potentially economically catastrophic one.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#418
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also aren’t counting the huge number of mild or asymptomatic infections, which is orders of magnitude larger. There’s error in the numerator of the equation, but it’s swamped by the error in the denominator.

Remember, it's a ratio. What matters isn't the raw number of missed cases, it's the ratio of missed-to-detected cases versus uncounted-to-counted deaths. If Italy has missed half of its deaths but also half of its total cases, the fatality ratio would remain the same. To bring its CFR down to the level of South Korea, you'd have to make the implausible assumption that Italy has caught nearly all of its deaths but mis…

Yes, I know it’s a ratio. That’s why I used the term “numerator” and “denominator”.

It’s not at all implausible that Italy has missed the vast majority of it’s cases, because they’re barely testing, and they’re not testing minor cases. It’s essentially guaranteed that they’re missing a huge number of cases.

A reasonable estimate is that they’re missing 10 cases for every one they actually detect. The error in the denominator is much larger than the error in the numerator.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#419
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a personal opinion, but I think ~15% unemployment peak is far too optimistic. I believe that 50-75% of restaurants will never reopen. 20-35% of small to mid-size hotels, venues, spas will declare bankruptcy within this year. Both employ a lot of people. So I'm afraid the number is going to much higher, maybe even double.

So much of this depends on how the administration handles this. I don't have great confidence based on how they've handled things so far.

Probably most small(and medium, and big) businesses can hold on for a month or two at this rate but failure rate is going to approach 100% as time goes on.

Re: Additional 6.6M File for Initial Unemployment Benefits [pdf]

#420
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a personal opinion, but I think ~15% unemployment peak is far too optimistic. I believe that 50-75% of restaurants will never reopen. 20-35% of small to mid-size hotels, venues, spas will declare bankruptcy within this year. Both employ a lot of people. So I'm afraid the number is going to much higher, maybe even double.

So much of this depends on how the administration handles this. I don't have great confidence based on how they've handled things so far.

Very true. I spoke to a few economists and they believe there are going to be two or three waves of CARE ACT-like packages.

It's easy to criticize the government without having to bear the responsibility but I wish they did this much earlier, with more force to bring confidence to the people rather than markets.

I spoke with a branch manager at a bank day before they announced the extended timeline for shut down up until end of April. She was cheerful because she believed that this will be over in two weeks. I tried to gently tell her that I believe we are looking at months (two at minimum), not weeks of lockdown and even that might be very optimistic. She didn't take it well.

People are confused and scared. I do wish the govs (local and federal) would be the leaders everyone needs them to be, but unfortunately, that's not yet happening (there are some exceptions, but very few unfortunately).

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