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Wacom tablets track every app you open

robertheaton.com

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Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#411

Post by Nitramp »

The sad bit is that (some reasonable) telemetric data is really, really useful for software engineering. If you have a large enough program, of course it'll have way more bugs than you could ever fix. Crash tracking and usage analytics is how you make a data driven decision on what to fix, and what to ignore. This enables a data driven approach to software quality that's a huge improvement.

Having worked on projects that did and did not have telemetrics, working without them feels absurd - it seems like you're just randomly fixing the side mirror on a car without any idea what's actually broken on it (independently of your overall testing posture).

Vendors tracking excessive information without proper disclosure destroy this information source for those developers that try to collect reasonable information (with consent, disclosure, in context, etc).

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#412

Post by tedunangst »

jameshart wrote: post #408

Hold on. This is a hardware device we are talking about here. You put it on your desk, physically interact with it, and plug it into your computer. Do you realize all the ways the manufacturer could harm you if they were malicious, cut corners, were coerced by a state to compromise the device, or failed to comply with regulations? And you’re worried about their data handling policy? A short and very incomplete list o…

People were also upset about superfish.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#413

Post by penagwin »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #355
a_e_k wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the approach that the Steam survey uses which blends engineering and communication: 1) Pop up and ask for permission to scan the machine. 2) Show the data collected that will be sent back and give a second chance to decline. 3) Allow everyone to see the aggregate results. Being mostly automated, it's lower friction than a manual Q&A survey. But it also feels way more respectful that trying to snoop arou…

Great point! And being able to see the results in aggregate is also interesting . It inclines me to share, because it becomes a two-way share, even though I don't actually have use for the information.

Being able to see the aggregate data isn't just interesting but publicly helpful.

From a game developer perspective, looking at it right now tells me that (simplified):

* Most gamers have at least a GTX 1050 and 8GB of ram or higher. Perfect now we know where to aim our medium settings.

* 74% use Nvidia GPUs, 15% use AMD - now we know where to focus driver optimizations

* English, Simplified Chinese, and Russian are the top languages (where to focus translations)

* 72% play on 1080p, 14% on 1440p, etc. Tells us what resolutions to make sure our UI works on.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#414

Post by penagwin »

ryandrake wrote: post #130
penagwin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is the popular conclusion - but from a developer perspective, data such as what software your product is used with is INCREDIBLY valuable for project planning and prioritization. People hate web tracking, but knowing what browsers or devices are visiting your website can be enormously helpful. Also I don't know all the details here - I know that Vizio TVs where collecting data and explicitly kept the IP a…

I don’t think anyone is denying that the data is valuable, but what is usually missing in the implementations (not sure if true in this case) are 1. Transparency about what is being collected, 2. Requesting consent from the user and 3. Providing control to the user in the form of an opt-in or opt-out. Transparency, consent, and control. If every company addressed these three issues, we wouldn’t be having this convers…

I fully agree that they need to address those problems. I really like the way Valve does it with their Steam Hardware Survey.

What I'm addressing is that I feel many people see a company tracking data, and assume this data is valuable enough to sell, and that the data is for sure being sold.

My point was that the data isn't just valuable to sell (maybe), but is legitimately valuable in making a better product/service.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#416

Post by jameshart »

tedunangst wrote: post #412
jameshart wrote: post #408

Hold on. This is a hardware device we are talking about here. You put it on your desk, physically interact with it, and plug it into your computer. Do you realize all the ways the manufacturer could harm you if they were malicious, cut corners, were coerced by a state to compromise the device, or failed to comply with regulations? And you’re worried about their data handling policy? A short and very incomplete list o…

People were also upset about superfish.

This is all just another example software devs' parochial belief that because software is eating the world, any problem in software is terrible, while ignoring the whole stack of hardware in meatspace that supports the software in the first place.

Like the whole 'internet-connected-cars' panic that occasionally grips developers. You know what's more dangerous than putting a car on the internet? putting a car on the road. There are other drivers out there who could kill you. Thousands of people actually die in accidents. And you want to worry about the infotainment system containing a remote execution vulnerability?

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#417

Post by jasonlotito »

phoe-krk wrote: post #151
csallen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having started numerous tech companies myself, interviewed hundreds of others who have, and started a community that instructions others on how to do so, I will say that HN's perception of how easy, profitable, and common it is to have a business model focused on selling data is overblown. I'd wager the vast majority of data collectors (e.g. Google Analytics accounts) just want it for their own internal decision-maki…

As much as I would like to believe you, I cannot. With literally almost every company around me gathering analytics and with every average person's operating system, web browser, social media, phones, televisions, smart locks, smart fridges, graphic card drivers and graphic tablets sending this data out in bulk, you are not going to convince me that the authors of all that software are siphoning data out of us all fo…

> you are not going to convince me that the authors of all that software are siphoning data out of us all for nothing.

That's not what they are saying at all, and suggesting it's for nothing proves you don't understand the value of using the data for internal decision making. Simply put: the main use of this data is for that reason: internal decision making. Answering questions like:

* How are our customers using our products? * What errors are they experiencing? * What features are they using? * Where are they confused? * What features cause the most problems? * What feature should we work on next?

These are all regular questions that are answered by collecting these types of metrics, including the one described in this post. Selling the data to third parties isn't easy. The data is generally gathered to inform product decisions, not to sell, so it's not in any easy format that makes it easy to sell. One has to go out of their way to sell this data, and the cost to put together this data in a way that's useful to sell would almost certainly cost more to setup and manage than they would get from such a small number of relative users.

The simple fact is, everyone sends data back to their servers for collecting and parsing, including Apple, the company everyone puts on a pedestal for privacy.

Simply put: show me the evidence they are selling the data to third parties for profit. Anything less is speculation.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#418

Post by gmd63 »

jameshart wrote: post #408

Hold on. This is a hardware device we are talking about here. You put it on your desk, physically interact with it, and plug it into your computer. Do you realize all the ways the manufacturer could harm you if they were malicious, cut corners, were coerced by a state to compromise the device, or failed to comply with regulations? And you’re worried about their data handling policy? A short and very incomplete list o…

What prevents a small peripheral company from being a vector for hardware attacks via a foreign state? Is there an impartial inspection process that checks devices? It seems like it would be extremely lucrative for a person to facilitate that operation if they don't value the integrity of their nation.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#420

Post by danShumway »

persephonee wrote: post #419

Why is the blog author wasting his time? The privacy statement says WACOM collects data. He does research and proofs it. -_-

> Wacom didn’t say exactly what data they were going to send themselves. I resolved to find out.

[...]

> since Wacom’s privacy policy makes no mention of their intention to record the name of every application I open on my personal laptop, I’d argue that it doesn’t even give them the technical-fig-leaf-right to do so. In fact, I’d argue that even if someone had read and understood Wacom’s privacy policy, and had knowingly consented to a reasonable interpretation of the words inside it, that person would still not have agreed to allow Wacom to log and track the name of every application that they opened on their personal laptop.

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