Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where? • Hacker News Board

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#411

Post by tmh79 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #344

tmh79 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"building new housing doesn't really drive the prices down" there is a lot of empirical evidence against this claim, and almost no evidence for it. Rising costs in cities are due to a few factors: (1) lack of new housing, (2) changing economic conditions in which high paying jobs are moving from the suburbs to the cities (to be fair, there is a small factor in very few cities of super rich people buying housing and n…

I love cities, think they are great, and live in the Bay Area myself. I don't know how old you are, but much of the flight to suburbs was due to the building of freeways and the fear of nuclear attack on cities. Younger people did not grow up with bomb shelters and duck and cover drills at schools, so living in a big city is not something they fear. If we have a nuke or two blow up a few cities today, there might be…

White people didn't leave cities because of the threat of nuclear attacks, they left because there was an incredible amount of racial unrest, violence, and rioting. There is a lot of research on the issue [0].

Climate change is a much larger threat to anyone under 30 than nuclear annihilation is, and the balance of evidence we have says that urban lifestyles (car free/car light, living in a multi family home) has a smaller carbon footprint than traditional suburban living.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#412

Post by silisili » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:07 AM UTC

bronco21016 wrote: post #250

smsm42 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Petty crime is increasing, and state laws are only enabling this - people are sick of it. I wonder if people considered voting the politicians who made these laws out. Judging from CA voting patterns, probably not. And then when it gets really bad, they move to another state and likely vote for the same policies that caused them to move in the first place.

I first heard of this phenomenon the other day from a coworker that lives south of Atlanta, near the major movie/tv production area. People, from what are typically blue areas, are moving in and radically changing the political landscape according to him. He wasn’t necessarily against liberal ideas but his complaint was that they seem to vote for taxes just for the hell of it because every tax proposed is still signi…

This is a real problem, and a real concern IMO. People move from their home cities and states to nice areas with low tax, then continue voting for the same policies and ideologies that led to their home becoming awful in the first place. I live in a rather conservative area that sees an influx of New Yorkers every single year. They all seem to complain about two things: the high taxes they left, and Republicans. I'd laugh if it weren't so mindnumbingly sad.

Reminds me of the saying, something like "if it smells like sh*t everywhere you go, maybe it's time to check your own shoes."

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#413

Post by tmh79 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #218

formerchamp wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't help when there are insane regulations like dedicating double digit percentage of new units to be "affordable"/subsidized/section 8. Anyone with a full time minimum wage job would not qualify for "affordable" housing, you literally have to not work at all, it's such a scam.

The entire idea is preposterous. The solution to affordable housing is oversupply of housing. Gov should incentivize new construction to reduce prices and let the market fix it.

Strong disagree, the solution to affordable housing includes a very large amount of private/free market housing, but the free market won't really address the needs of people below 30% of the median income. Additionally, good affordable housing is one of the best anti poverty tools that we have. IMO the long term solution is robust private market housing construction for the middle class, and a robust public housing construction system for those who truly need it.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#414

Post by ericfrenkiel » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #408

ericfrenkiel wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no. Reality doesn’t bear out with your theory.

Uh, yeah. Reality does bear out your theory. The extremes have been muted on both sides. Yes, if your views are at the extremes, you have less voice. That's a FEATURE , not a bug. And I feel no sympathy for you.

I would say it’s your own bias which is informing your opinion. California has only gotten more “progressive” with each election.

If that makes you happy, I hope you understand that it’s “progressive” policy which has caused crime to explode, housing prices to rise, and people to leave the state.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#415

Post by prestonh » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

atomi wrote: post #298

I wouldn't leave California for a million dollars. To quote a famous Californian, "I'd rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona."

I got that reference.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#416

Post by jelliclesfarm » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #370

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxation is tyranny. I have difficulty understanding the motivations of a working class that is demanding more taxation.

I really think this line of argument is going nowhere; you seem to have fundamental opinions on taxation that others here don't share, and I don't think further discussion is going to be all that productive.

That’s because others seem to have opinions about taxation and no understanding of how taxes work while I am trying to point out that property taxes are Ad Valorem.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#417

Post by Royalaid » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #102

My wife and I moved here to California (my home state) mid-2018 from Michigan (her home state). We moved out here for a startup, but shortly after relocating the founder ran out of money and could no longer pay me. This was a huge shock because on the surface everything was fine and dandy. Got totally bamboozled. I still remember walking into our co-working spot to pick up some mail and was told that I should leave t…

I went through something that rhymes with what you went through. My wife got in USC and I found a job in Irivine. We moved here and things were okay for a while, about 2 years, and then the job was gone. That was a very stressful 4 months. We stuck it out, I commuted to Santa Monica from Irvine everyday ( 6 hour commute by train). Then I eventually found the gig I am at now and have been for the past two years. We go back every Christmas and 4th of July to visit our family's but I have to say everytime I land back at SNA I feel so much relief I am back in CA.

Just my two cents.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#418

Post by oplav » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

nmfisher wrote: post #401

imroot wrote: post #396

Florida's upsides: No Sales Tax. If you're not looking for waterfront, housing is super affordable. Amazing place if you're single. Florida's Downsides: Homeless are more aggressive than in SF. Florida Man. Frequently 10% sales tax in most places due to lack of income tax. Higher property taxes if you're in a really progressive area. You're swapping out earthquakes for hurricanes. A lot of "Keeping up with the Jones'…

I'm still trying to understand how it all works in the USA, so please bear with me. What do you mean by "No Sales Tax", then go on to say "Frequently 10% sales tax"?

I think they probably mean no income tax.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#419

Post by ip26 » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #178

dfsegoat wrote: post #4

Sonoma County, CA here. We've lost more people from our county than any other in the state between 2017-2018 [1], and it is only continuing. From the few of these people I have spoken with - anecdotally: - None left because of the fire risk, specifically. [though some obviously did - 2] - Most left because of the cost of living: $600k avg home price. - Some also left because of political and human environment: We hav…

> Petty crime is increasing, and state laws are only enabling this - people are sick of it. I wonder if people considered voting the politicians who made these laws out. Judging from CA voting patterns, probably not. And then when it gets really bad, they move to another state and likely vote for the same policies that caused them to move in the first place.

If Sonoma alone (or along with other small voting blocs) is bearing the brunt of state policy it may not feel in their power to change.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#420

Post by jelliclesfarm » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #368

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are paid on the sale price. It is not a punitive tax to fund new entrants. An example: Consider a 75 year old senior couple on fixed retirement income living in their fully paid 40 year old home. They paid the 300k mortgage and the house is worth 1 million.They raised their kids who attended public schools for 12 years each. Property taxes are used for public school education. 45% of California budget…

> Property taxes are paid on the sale price. No, property taxes are paid on the assessed value, and assessments don't just happen at sale time. Only CA has this weird freeze-taxes-at-time-of-sale thing. > It is not a punitive tax to fund new entrants. No one is claiming it is. Hell, it isn't great even for homeowners who are "protected" by Prop 13, because if they want to move (say a widow/widower whose kids have mov…

What’s wrong with never wanting to move? Out of homes people paid off after 30 years of mortgage? Why should we promote the notion that tax paying citizens should become transients due to tax burden?

So tax the descendents. Property rights are one of the reasons why this country was founded..primary homes need to be protected from predatory taxes and redistribution of wealth.