Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused • Hacker News Board

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#411

Post by undefined1 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #327

reeddavid wrote: post #23

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

Patagonia are famously environmental and not really run on a capitalist basis...

Patagonia was started by a rock climber who sold his hand-made climbing gear into the free market. He was well rewarded for doing so and from that was able to grow into the Patagonia many of us know and love today (indeed my favorite clothing company).

The company is not only run on a capitalist basis, it's the reason it exists in the first place.

But yeah, it's true they're more conscious and environmentally friendly than most. And I think they play an important role in pushing back against fast fashion, which is incredibly polluting and wasteful.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#412

Post by mark-r » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

Cougher wrote: post #337

mark-r wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Guitar Center to be a good place to check out and buy monitor speakers and headphones.

I don't know if it still applies, but studio speakers used to be notorious for bad sound. I would also hope that you wouldn't be considering guitar amp-type speakers as well.

Speakers (of any kind) can vary tremendously, which is why it's nice to be able to compare them. Guitar Center carries more than just guitar-specific items, which is why I thought it would be helpful to mention them; it's not something many people are aware of. I would never consider guitar speakers for general purpose use.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#413

Post by lightedman » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

phs2501 wrote: post #293

lightedman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 256kHz 48-bit can't even get close to what I need when it comes to pitch-shifting an audio sample up even one single octave. It produces audible 'warbling' like a poorly-encoded MP3, or a badly-fatigued guitar string. We aren't close to peak audio, yet.

Assuming you're talking about pitch shifting without changing speed, that warbling doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the source sample. It's just how the pitch shifting algorithm works.

Nah, this happens even in my hardware guitar pitch-shifting pedal. That one is pure analog. Guitar doesn't warble, but throw FLAC through it and you will get the warbling.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#414

Post by mrandish » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

> audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic

Yep. I picked up a massive old high-end Denon receiver with pre-amp inputs and use a cheap newer receiver to decode surround digital audio and pump it through that 40 pound beast. Sounds incredible.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#415

Post by hootbootscoot » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

gwright wrote: post #405

asdff wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already buy louis vuitton at the nordstrom rack. The model for highly disposable luxury technology is Apple. Apple is also the model for refurbished goods. These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can tuck away a refurbished part of the site just out of the eyes of the majority just like Apple does.

"highly disposable"? I think if you consider the average useable lifetime of an Apple product they aren't as expensive as they may seem. Of course there are people who want a new model phone every year but that is their choice, certainly not something forced by the nature of the product.

How does that viewpoint square with 1) Deliberately slowed-down hardware (claimed concern about "older device batteries" don't wash with reality either...)

2) Planned obsolescence in the forms of A) Removing/altering physical ports, preferring proprietary "standards" to actual standards B) Irreversible OS upgrades, Internet Recovery Mode notwithstanding, and the deliberately hobbled functionality "older" hardware endures, see leaked employee info on deliberate unnecessary version flags purpose built into software, etc.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#416

Post by hootbootscoot » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

gwright wrote: post #405

asdff wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already buy louis vuitton at the nordstrom rack. The model for highly disposable luxury technology is Apple. Apple is also the model for refurbished goods. These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can tuck away a refurbished part of the site just out of the eyes of the majority just like Apple does.

"highly disposable"? I think if you consider the average useable lifetime of an Apple product they aren't as expensive as they may seem. Of course there are people who want a new model phone every year but that is their choice, certainly not something forced by the nature of the product.

but yes, bad Sonos. (to bring it back on topic)

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#417

Post by zootam » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

zxcb1 wrote: post #196

baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

Yes. It is painful to realize that Apple has turned into that. My reference example is a Mac Mini and MacBook Pro which I bought around 2012. Both still work, and are upgraded with dual SSD and 16GB RAM. It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS. Linux is now the only option, which without they would be useless. With my latest MacBook Pro, I already know that there are no upgrades, the keyboard…

What do you mean not possible to reinstall the OS?

They don't make it easy, but you can download older OSX images from apple's servers (Sierra, Yosemite, etc..) and install them with some effort.

Not impossible.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#418

Post by overgard » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

aryamaan wrote: post #242

overgard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one. Dunno, if the ID works like an activation key it might not recognize ids that don’t pass some sort of cryptographic signature check. Then you would need the private key to generate new valid ids.

How about copying them from valid machines then? May be they generate new tokens for every request and one set of the key is in hardware itself protected. Such a waste of tech and resources to not let use the very things which they purchased.

I agree it's a terrible waste, my suspicion is just that if they want to keep unauthorized devices off their network, it wouldn't be hard to implement.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#419

Post by dagss » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #203

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

The problem is Sonos is making it easier for people to perform acts that are bad for the environment.

The second hand market is very good for the environment. By going after it, Sonos is actively hurting the environment.

That people have a choice doesn't exonerate Sonos. They are making it a lot easier for people to make the wrong choice.

Many things in this world is a win for both parties involved but still an awful thing to do (due to externalities).

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#420

Post by lowbloodsugar » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:27 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #369

jellicle wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the only "improvements" that are ever going to happen to audio in your lifetime will be a) internetifying it and b) adding more restrictions to how you use it. We've hit peak audio (best reproduction, no restrictions on usage) and it's only downhill from here. I look forward to my 2025 speakers that only work for an hour a day unless I pay for extra time credits. "Do you wish to play a) music b) music and l…

We had indeed excellent analog audio for many decades. But there are still very exciting things happening which are improving the audio quality a lot - expecially in the middle and lower range of the spectrum. There are great pure analog setups, but they require a lot of very expensive and bulky technology, none the least, large speakers and a carefully set up room with good accustics. Modern digital technology makes…

I don't disagree that there are exciting things coming to consumer audio, but we have had excellent digital audio for decades in audiophile systems. My speakers are twenty years old and they each have a DSP, two DACs and three amplifiers. I paid $900 for a pair and they are the best speakers I've ever heard.