Stripe to move to South San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#411

Post by kevingadd » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #148

kevingadd wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternative solution actually fixes this, though? All you can really do is build more housing (to fix housing undersupply caused by the excess office space) and limit growth of office space (to prevent the imbalance from getting worse). The fact that companies can open up offices somewhere else shouldn't be very surprising, and it shouldn't be shocking that people will choose to live where they already live unle…

> What alternative solution actually fixes this, though? Lower the cost of building housing. Streamline permits, zoning, and environmental review. Publicly commit, in other words, to driving down housing prices over a decade. (Note: not land prices! That’s the compromise.) This makes it cheaper to... Build enough shelters for the transient homeless population. Now that they’re a stable problem, we can focus on the gr…

These are all great ideas, but the point is that they don't solve the other problems at hand directly, and the problems at hand interfere with executing on these ideas.

How are we going to fund mental health interventions and housing cost reductions if businesses refuse to pay taxes and housing costs keep going up? How are we going to expand on transit and cut transit costs if transit revenues are bad and high housing prices result in land values so high that the state can't buy land up to expand transit infrastructure?

I'd love to see that stuff, but it's been necessary for decades and isn't happening. We can't blame it all on NIMBYs, and getting rid of them won't make it suddenly happen.

Some of this is due to other state-wide and city problems, like taxpayers being unwilling to approve funding for transit and other measures, but that's not the only problem either.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#412

Post by huac » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #342

gamblor956 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net income isn't normalized across businesses. Most businesses aim for net income. Most startups don't even try, even if they've raised hundreds of millions of dollars and occupy fancy offices. (It's also very easy for IP-based businesses to shift where income is generated.) And that's the basic reasoning behind SF's gross proceeds tax. It's a uniquely SV tax that only works because so many unicorns built their house…

> Net income isn't normalized across businesses. > Most businesses aim for net income. Most startups don't even try, even if they've raised hundreds of millions of dollars and occupy fancy offices. (It's also very easy for IP-based businesses to shift where income is generated.) Why would you want to tax a startup that isn't making any money? The whole point of government taxation is to generate revenue from profitab…

how much tax should Amazon pay?

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#413

Post by Kalium » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

lsc wrote: post #404

Kalium wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I wonder if a city could ever follow the model of Atlanta and try to build a "new Silicon Valley" from scratch with aggressive policies that lure companies/employees from existing tech hubs? You might be surprised by how many "Silicon X" places there are. Most of them are trying to lure companies. Only a few - like Atlanta - seem to understand that they need educational and financial infrastructure first.

I think educational infrastructure is almost a trailing indicator... Silicon Valley is special 'cause it prizes the sort of education required to do this sort of work. Especially when I first came here in the '90s, it was amazing - going from the place I grew up, where reading in public felt like it was risking physical violence (well, that's not really fair, I was 17) - to silicon valley, where that sort of thing wa…

Bear in mind that Silicon Valley sprung up, by sheer coincidence, in a place with two world-class universities close enough to loathe one another's sports teams.

Primary and secondary schools may well be training indicators.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#414

Post by lsc » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:34 AM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #413

lsc wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think educational infrastructure is almost a trailing indicator... Silicon Valley is special 'cause it prizes the sort of education required to do this sort of work. Especially when I first came here in the '90s, it was amazing - going from the place I grew up, where reading in public felt like it was risking physical violence (well, that's not really fair, I was 17) - to silicon valley, where that sort of thing wa…

Bear in mind that Silicon Valley sprung up, by sheer coincidence , in a place with two world-class universities close enough to loathe one another's sports teams. Primary and secondary schools may well be training indicators.

Maybe... but can you get world-class universities without a culture that values education? I mean, I guess it's one of those chicken and egg things, as a world class university both requires and attracts people who value education.

But, I mean, could you greenfield start a world class university in a place where people see reading in public as something to be ridiculed? would that be easier than bootstrapping a major tech company in some low cost of living area?

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#415

Post by randycupertino » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

inferiorhuman wrote: post #123

x0x0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you ride Bart? You're going from a local commute to bart -> walking to the office, to a local commute to bart -> going to a station that is skipped by 3/4 of bart lines (ie requires an xfer for Antioch, Pleasanton, or Fremont) -> a shitty bus. NB: Bart is ass and generally is too incompetent to align train and bus schedules. This adds probably at least 45 minutes each way for anyone coming from SF or East Bay loca…

Do you ride Bart? How do you think most East Bay commuters are getting to San Francisco?

Most all of my coworkers from East Bay drive in, but my office is in Mission Bay and BART doesn't go there. People used to take BART to the shuttles but so many people were quitting as a company retention thing they started letting everyone wfh during rush hours, commute off hours and gave people free parking instead. I like the flexibility but it's still a pita.

Bay Area needs more robust interconnected public transit, and higher density housing near transit hubs.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#416

Post by vikiomega9 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:53 AM UTC

lsc wrote: post #406

zjaffee wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding onto this point, I think one thing to recognize about the future of LA as a big media hub is the fact that tons of popular Youtubers and other independent content creators will relocate to Los Angeles due to the agglomeration of talent that exists there. This is much more similar to how things work with SF/SV in the context of startups.

I think there's a big social component, too. I personally would pay rather extra to live here in silicon valley - extra even net additional earnings, just because I fit in ways I don't fit anywhere else I've been. (I mean, I'm not claiming that silicon valley is more inclusive than other places; a lot of people say the opposite and I have seen some evidence corroborating that view. I'm just saying, for me, for who I…

Side topic, I've been in the bay area for a while but struggled to meet people, did you just go to random meetups? ie. how do I build a network here, I'm a transplant for context.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#417

Post by randycupertino » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:01 AM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #359

kelp wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The major reason why I live in SOMA, and put up with all the significant downsides of that neighborhood, is because it means my commute is very short. It also means I have significant job and networking opportunities within a 30 minute _walk_ from home. When I was last looking for a new role, I didn't even consider anything outside of SF.

I mulled over this for a while and figured that I should be grateful. This whole situation appears to be lifting IT salaries all over the world. I'm currently in the middle of switching jobs and found that I sneer at positions that pay less than ~$50k (in Poland at that) or don't offer fully remote work. So, I guess, thank you?

Polska! I am Polish (3rd gen removed) and was recently in Krakow for a work/fun trip and fantasized about moving there for a year or so and working remote for a while to learn the language and explore the country. Could keep my Bay Area salary as long as kept US hours for conference calls etc. We hire remote IT as well- lmk if you're interested in connecting!

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#418

Post by randycupertino » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:08 AM UTC

lsc wrote: post #171

dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

> Is there some hidden reason that companies like this insist on staying in the same area despite the many potential advantages of looking elsewhere? the long term root is that there is a huge productivity advantage to clusters of workers. (or, at least many people believe so) Around here, if you strike up a random conversation in public, it's very likely you will do so with someone who does something relevant to wha…

> I literally found someone to buy my company at a (non-industry) party. (I mean, I did a bad job of it, I was drinking too much and complaining loudly about how much it sucks to run a company and how I had fucked up like three really good chances to sell the thing and generally being a downer, which is rude, I think, at a party, but also not how you maximize the value of the company you sell. Still, I got an impactful amount of money, and more importantly, I got someone else to run the damn thing so I could go get a job that paid without dumping my existing customers.) I've solved technical problems in similar sorts of ways; it's completely normal to go hang out with friends and actually solve problems over drinks or pizza or whatever. (which yes, is a culture some people hate, and I totally understand that, but some of us like it, and like it or not, it's certainly effective.)

I love your story, I thank you for sharing it and your candor because this sounds exactly like something I would do and feel sheepish about afterwards. They way you describe this happening I can feel in my soul reenacting the exact same scenario. Well done!

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#419

Post by randycupertino » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:17 AM UTC

lsc wrote: post #406

zjaffee wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding onto this point, I think one thing to recognize about the future of LA as a big media hub is the fact that tons of popular Youtubers and other independent content creators will relocate to Los Angeles due to the agglomeration of talent that exists there. This is much more similar to how things work with SF/SV in the context of startups.

I think there's a big social component, too. I personally would pay rather extra to live here in silicon valley - extra even net additional earnings, just because I fit in ways I don't fit anywhere else I've been. (I mean, I'm not claiming that silicon valley is more inclusive than other places; a lot of people say the opposite and I have seen some evidence corroborating that view. I'm just saying, for me, for who I…

> I think there's a big social component, too.

Agree with this. At my company, top brass is basically a cabal of baby boomer LGBT+ scientists who moved here in the 1990s/early 2000s to escape living in the closet in small minded bible belt towns. I'm not LGBT but it's pretty inspiring every day to work alongside them.

When I first started I happened to sit near our top QA exec and over the years as I got to know him he was telling me how in the 1980s his team at MD Anderson used to smuggle blood across the border from Mexico in briefcases before the FDA finally bowed to building pressure and got around to mandating screening for antibodies and accepting INDs.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#420

Post by randycupertino » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:21 AM UTC

vikiomega9 wrote: post #416

lsc wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big social component, too. I personally would pay rather extra to live here in silicon valley - extra even net additional earnings, just because I fit in ways I don't fit anywhere else I've been. (I mean, I'm not claiming that silicon valley is more inclusive than other places; a lot of people say the opposite and I have seen some evidence corroborating that view. I'm just saying, for me, for who I…

Side topic, I've been in the bay area for a while but struggled to meet people, did you just go to random meetups? ie. how do I build a network here, I'm a transplant for context.

Start small- work on being more friendly with everyone - your yoga instructors, people in classes with you, your grocery guy, wherever you interact with people in the world. Fead How to Win Friends and Influence people and follow the instructions. It's dated and cheesy but really works. Work outward from your coworkers and say yes when people invite you to hang out outside of work. Reciprocate and invite them to do stuff as well. If you're dating anyone, make friends with their friends and their friend's partners. It can be a slow burn but slowly builds and suddenly the whole world is your friend- people you don't know yet are just friends who don't know they are your friend yet. source: I don't really "network" or go to meetups but never had to job hunt, ever- just keep getting referred and pulled upward by people who are better than me and bring me along to work under them

Oh- one other great tip- pick a hobby you like and join some clubs. SF running, Dolphin Swim club, crossfit and triathlon clubs are networking (and, to be frank, dating) hotspots. GL!