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Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

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Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#411

Post by dragonwriter »

cutler wrote: post #405
dragonwriter wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if GraalVM fixes startup times aren't JVM languages just too long-winded for scripting? Perl, Python and Ruby dominate the scripting world for a reason Ruby is a JVM language, in that JRuby is a very complete competitive, current, and widely-used-in-production Ruby implementation.

By JVM languages I really meant those designed originally for the JVM, ie. Java, Clojure, Scala, Kotlin & Groovy.

Even so, Clojure and Groovy aren't particularly long-winded, nor is Scala despite static typing.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#412

Post by zmmmmm »

cutler wrote: post #334
tombert wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, escript isn't so bad once you get used to it. Clojure would be a great language for small-ish scripts if it weren't the dog-slow startup times, and has excellent concurrency support. I hear that GraalVM might fix that but I sadly haven't had a chance to play with that yet.

Even if GraalVM fixes startup times aren't JVM languages just too long-winded for scripting? Perl, Python and Ruby dominate the scripting world for a reason - standard libraries for file, dir and pathname manipulation written in a concise language. Scripting is a style of coding, not just a means to an end. It is here that dynamic languages excel. Clojure is the leanest of the JVMs but doesn't it still rely on Java f…

You should definitely educate yourself about Groovy. It's my favorite scripting language, particularly because it enables a true scripting style, but actually works well as a full application development language too (though I would always want a backbone of static typed code).

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#413

Post by zmmmmm »

weff_ wrote: post #212
rubyn00bie wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tldr; Using a scripting language that allows for native threads or has a strong concurrency model builtin to the core would be beneficial for any CPU bound scripting task... ----- Python's concurrency model is good for waiting on network or disk I/O because of its GIL (Global Interpreter Lock): https://realpython.com/python-gil/#the-impact-on-multi-threa... If your program is CPU bound the GIL will slow you down. I'm…

As I've posted above, I'm a bit confused by CPU-bound work being processed in a scripting language. If you're planning on doing intense CPU-bound work, maybe use a lower-level language? I'm not saying abandon Python: you can extend Python with C or just use IPC to transfer data between a Python front-end and a computation back-end.

At one time it was an obvious dichotomy that you would not use a scripting language for CPU bound work, but these days it is a much more blurry line. Partly because modern efficient languages are becoming ergonomic enough to work well as scripting languages while still giving you very good performance.

I actually love doing CPU bound work in Groovy which is usually described as a scripting language. But it gets converted straight to java byte code which is JIT'd and ends up as machine code. It only takes a few static typed hints here and there and it runs in the same league as C++ implementations. And it gets Java's excellent concurrency support for free.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#414

Post by bborud »

Ovid wrote: post #359
bborud wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has been a huge deal for the Perl community. I wasn't aware that there was one beyond the poor sods charged with maintaining my youthful sins.

I get hired all the time to fix legacy systems in Perl or to build new systems in Perl. We're still out there, but it's not "cool" to talk about.

I hope you are not working on my old sins. But if you are, can I watch? :-)

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#415

Post by Ultimatt »

zumu wrote: post #408
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #33

From what I could tell, Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). Incidentally, it also happens to sound similar to "roku" (="six").

So as a Japanese speaker, I don't think I ever would have made the 'raku' == 'rakuda' camel connection. Also, while 'raku' is the reading for 楽, which connotes easy, simple and other good things, it is also the reading for a bunch of other characters--namely, 落, which means or carries the connotation of falling, declining or otherwise missing the mark. When I see the 'raku' transliteration in the context of Perl, I t…

Raku isnt falling from public favor, it hasn't made it yet. It's an entirely different language to Perl 5. Like the difference between C and C# or Java.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#416

Post by Ultimatt »

weff_ wrote: post #206
vaer-k wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should first-class concurrency needs be required to script in Elixir? This question seems to imply that Python is somehow a default language and special requirements must be needed to justify writing in something else. Elixir is general-use and pleasant to write scripts in so seems reasonable to me for someone to do so if that's their thing.

Ovid2 said Perl6 has a good concurrency model lliamander replied that Elixir does too and it's worth a look To that, 7thaccount replied that Perl6 and Elixir fill different niches. So far, it seems Perl6 fills a niche that requires scripting and first-class concurrency. My question then is: what is this niche that requires very solid concurrency but also scripting. In other words, what does Perl6 have in terms of con…

Jonathan Worthington (Rakudo Compiler Architect). Keynote: Perl 6 Concurrency

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyzsviI48M

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#417

Post by zumu »

Ultimatt wrote: post #415
zumu wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as a Japanese speaker, I don't think I ever would have made the 'raku' == 'rakuda' camel connection. Also, while 'raku' is the reading for 楽, which connotes easy, simple and other good things, it is also the reading for a bunch of other characters--namely, 落, which means or carries the connotation of falling, declining or otherwise missing the mark. When I see the 'raku' transliteration in the context of Perl, I t…

Raku isnt falling from public favor, it hasn't made it yet. It's an entirely different language to Perl 5. Like the difference between C and C# or Java.

Yea, sorry I'm not super familiar with the project, but that is the general vibe I get about Perl.

Interestingly enough 落(raku) also has the connotation of failure or missing the target, so not very auspicious in the context of a new language either!

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#418

Post by ksec »

The Author point to [1] for reason for Raku instead of Camelia.

One thing that struck me,

12. Both raku.com and raku.org are currently available.

I was surprised that a 4 letter .com or .org is still available. So I looked it up and turns out to be not true.

And it was interesting half of the discussion had domain name availability as factor.

[1] https://github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/81#issuecomm...

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#419

Post by chmod775 »

aflag wrote: post #402
chmod775 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a blog post with the basics, then Google everything else as I need it.

Interesting. A good book is very efficient at teaching you how to think in that particular language, rather than translating the ideas you have in another language into the new language. How do you learn that with your method? It sounds to me that it would require a long time programming in the new language to come to the same realisations by yourself.

I've been developing software for more than ten years and it is rare now that I encounter anything genuinely new "idea wise" in a programming language.

The main questions I have when doing something in an unfamiliar language are now:

1. What is the syntax for X

2. Can it do Y

3. Is there a library/builtin for Z

For anything else, I've probably been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

I remember using some books to get a structured introduction when I started out many years ago though.

Nowadays I'll probably just open whatever existing code there is, go "ah, so it's like that", and hack away with the help of Google.

The stuff that takes actual learning tend to be major frameworks for me, not so much whatever programming language is used.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#420

Post by Grinnz »

takeda wrote: post #366
anonytrary wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a TLDR on what's wrong with the name "Perl 6" for those of us who have zero context?

I believe the issue was that Perl 6 had too many changes that made it hard to convert apps from earlier version. That created some kind of limbo where people weren't sure if they should use perl 5 or perl 6 (”why develop in perl 5, when it is probably a dead end and perl 6 is the future” and at the same time "why should I convert to perl 6, what if it will be a failure and I wasted my time?") By renaming it, it reviv…

Also, importantly, reflecting that they are in no more competition than Perl and Ruby are.
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