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DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

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Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#411

Post by simonh »

bitpush wrote: post #394
briandear wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps research “Differential Privacy” to better understand what they are actually doing. You are seemingly suggesting that they do Google-style data collection where data is attached to a specific user. It’s a disingenuous interpretation of their privacy policy (both the marketing version and the legal version.) https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Over... What should actually be eye opening is h…

What part of handing over keys to iCloud to Chinese govt need to be applauded? The sooner people realize big corportations including Apple, Google will do things to generate profit, the better. Wallstreet, for better or worse, wont be kind if Tim Cook came in and said we decided to forego profit because differential privacy

Apple obeys the laws of the countries is operates in. Are you suggesting they should not?

On your second point, they Tim Cook has already said on their earnings calls that they could have monetized user data if they wanted to and chose not to. In fact they built Apple Maps at huge cost specifically so they would not have to give personal data to Google. They've been very clear about this.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#412

Post by speedplane »

simonh wrote: post #411
bitpush wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of handing over keys to iCloud to Chinese govt need to be applauded? The sooner people realize big corportations including Apple, Google will do things to generate profit, the better. Wallstreet, for better or worse, wont be kind if Tim Cook came in and said we decided to forego profit because differential privacy

Apple obeys the laws of the countries is operates in. Are you suggesting they should not? On your second point, they Tim Cook has already said on their earnings calls that they could have monetized user data if they wanted to and chose not to. In fact they built Apple Maps at huge cost specifically so they would not have to give personal data to Google. They've been very clear about this.

> Apple obeys the laws of the countries is operates in. Are you suggesting they should not?

They can always choose not to operate in those countries. But they do, and accordingly making a conscious decision to endorse those laws in the name of profit.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#413

Post by hutattedonmyarm »

MrBra wrote: post #377
cygned wrote: post #50

When DuckDuckGo is set to a dark theme, the map is also in dark mode! To me, that is an incredible valuable feature. Edit: which is a fallback to Mapbox, no Apple Maps feature.

Check out "Darker Reader" extension... now you'll get that everywhere, automatically, with good looking dark colors. I think it achieves that by leveraging color theory and CSS filters. Once you try it you cannot go back :) I am not involved in development nor devs are friends of mine, I just think it didn't get all the exposure it deserves. PS if you're on chrome, after installing Darker Reader the infamous chrome w…

as much as I love that extension, I prefer "native" dark modes (as in, provided directly by the website)

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#414

Post by simonh »

speedplane wrote: post #412
simonh wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple obeys the laws of the countries is operates in. Are you suggesting they should not? On your second point, they Tim Cook has already said on their earnings calls that they could have monetized user data if they wanted to and chose not to. In fact they built Apple Maps at huge cost specifically so they would not have to give personal data to Google. They've been very clear about this.

> Apple obeys the laws of the countries is operates in. Are you suggesting they should not? They can always choose not to operate in those countries. But they do, and accordingly making a conscious decision to endorse those laws in the name of profit.

According to that logic any Western tourist that visits Beijing and goes to Tiananmen Square, as I have, and doesn't wave about pro-democracy banners is 'making a conscious decision to endorse' Chinese censorship laws. So apparently I'm now a Communist shill?

Or are you saying that no foreign companies anywhere should do any business at all in China and no tourists should go there because doing so and obeying the laws is tantamount to taking personal responsibility for them?

By extension, I suppose this means that, by not breaking them, you are personally endorsing every law of the country in which you currently reside, or any countries you have or will ever visit?

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#415

Post by adrianN »

tracker1 wrote: post #194
sabas_ge wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have rolled out their own (privacy-focused) map service. The data is open, the stack is open as well.

And how much do the database server(s) cost, not to mention pushing map tiles out in terms of data costs. DDG isn't exactly flush with cash like google and apple are.

Do you think Apple sells their maps below cost, or that Apple is able (due to its scale?) to get significantly better deals than DDG could get?

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#416

Post by TulliusCicero »

grsmto wrote: post #8

I wish they were explaining why they moved away from Mapbox and OSM in general!

Living in Germany, I've found that OSM embeds in websites are more common for me now while browsing, and to be blunt: they're ugly.

The maps themselves are just difficult to visually parse, and unpleasant to look at compared to Google Maps and Apple Maps (which look comparably attractive at a glance). I dunno if that's solvable using a third party OSM service provider or not, but to me it seems like a good enough reason to switch.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#417

Post by chrisxcross »

elicash wrote: post #118
godelski wrote: post #117

I have to say I'm pretty upset about this. Not over privacy stuff (I don't trust Apple that much either), but because Apple maps just sucks. Unless things changed within the last 4 months, Apple Maps couldn't accurately navigate me from Custer State Park to Mt. Rushmore (which really isn't far).

Have you previously used OpenStreetMap? I'd be interested in hearing from those who have. I can say as a DDG user that presentation-wise I disliked what DDG was using before -- but from a direction-accuracy perspective I simply have no idea and would love to hear from others.

OSM is really awesome in (western) Europe. I use it all the time. All new bike trails are in it. Even the trees in down town are in it. It is even great for car navigation. I used the map data to navigate in tiny beach villages in Spain, for a round trip in Iceland and on several other occasions in western Europe. However, i only relied on the data and let my Garmin device create the routes.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#418

Post by Yuval_Halevi »

mtmail wrote: post #9

Some paint it as if the main reason to switch was privacy ( https://www.imore.com/duckduckgo-switches-apple-maps-because... "DuckDuckGo switches to Apple Maps, because privacy"), but the previous map provider was mapbox (openstreetmap plus commercial sources) and I doubt mapbox collected more data than Apple is now.

Good point. I like DuckDuckGo, but lately, their decisions make me wonder what's their direction.

The only way they promote themselves is only by comparing DuckDuckGo to Google

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#419

Post by aurea »

sjg007 wrote: post #361
mtmail wrote: post #9

Some paint it as if the main reason to switch was privacy ( https://www.imore.com/duckduckgo-switches-apple-maps-because... "DuckDuckGo switches to Apple Maps, because privacy"), but the previous map provider was mapbox (openstreetmap plus commercial sources) and I doubt mapbox collected more data than Apple is now.

Apple needs it's own search engine. This is step 1.

What if they just bought DDG?

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#420

Post by rmc »

spectre256 wrote: post #317
mtmail wrote: post #9

Some paint it as if the main reason to switch was privacy ( https://www.imore.com/duckduckgo-switches-apple-maps-because... "DuckDuckGo switches to Apple Maps, because privacy"), but the previous map provider was mapbox (openstreetmap plus commercial sources) and I doubt mapbox collected more data than Apple is now.

Whether or not Mapbox collects more data is an interesting question. My guess would be they do, by a lot. If you look at their website, Mapbox is all about "live" location data, insights, etc. The days of them just being a provider of nice services built around (mostly) open data are probably over. They have a huge userbase and can leverage all that data to do powerful things.

CEO of Mapbox said at State of the Map US 2018 that they are continuously collecting lots of location data (which they use to improve the map). They do not believe this amounts to the collection of personal data.
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