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Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

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Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#411

Post by olalonde »

gowld wrote: post #366
mbesto wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the process, they're actually paying real people more money Except the OP was talking specifically about the company's plan to lobby. Yes, they're actually paying people more money, but if everyone has that same amount of money then you get wage push inflation. Then everyone loses. This is also why minimum wage discussions always spiral out of control...there really is no good long term solution for setting mini…

That's a radical theory; can you give a more detailed explanation? Mainstream economists and political theorists believe that raising minimum wage reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability, which reduces the risk of things like crime, Great Depression, and violent revolution. Even if minimum wage growth hits its practical max and creates inflation, (1) that's easy enough to detect and c…

That's incorrect. Mainstream economists are quite divided on whether minimum wage laws help the poor, let alone the other things you mentioned. See the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#412

Post by aurizon »

One major function of minimum wages is to offset the fact that union wages keep ratcheting up and in rust belt areas the minimum wage people could not afford the new items made by union people, like cars - so that is why they buy used cars - if any. In a sense there is a need for a maximum wage as well, to limit this factor.

This reduced spread between high and low wages is why Germany does so well - in effect the country becomes a large efficient factory. Which is why unions have a management role, board seats etc, so they know when an excess wage is bad for the company and for the country as a whole. Japanese and Korean unions do this as well, but in general do not have board seats. The USA lacks in this respect, so we have a lot of poor at work without enough money to buy much stuff - and selling stuff builds the economy.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#413

Post by Moodles »

meko wrote: post #302
pkulak wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to shame a company for behavior you don't like, I think you should be prepared to give praise when they do exactly what you just asked for. When you constantly move the goal posts just so that you never have to abandon your righteous anger for even one day, what kind of incentive does that give companies to change their behavior?

Companies don't really deserve praise, practically ever because their motives are ultimately guided by profits. They only act in the interest of revenue. Sometimes those interests align with the employees, but let's not pretend this isn't self preservation on amazon's behalf.

So exhausting. Give them a break. They did a nice thing.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#414

Post by gizmo385 »

irishcoffee wrote: post #362
prolikewh0a wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're out of touch with the job market and reality itself. It's not easy for these people to just "get a new job". They get paid minimum wage and are probably living paycheck to paycheck. If these people just "move jobs", they're out a paycheck for weeks and may lose their car, their home, not be able to eat, etc.

> If these people just "move jobs", they're out a paycheck for weeks and may lose their car, their home, not be able to eat, etc. This gets floated around a lot. At least in the US I can't imagine a scenario where not paying bills for 1 or 2 months results in homelessness and a repo'd car. Being both a homeowner and a landlord, I could not pay my mortgage for a year before legal processes kick in, and if my tenants d…

> Being both a homeowner

I'd wager that the vast majority of these people are not homeowners. I'm personally not a homeowner and if I missed a rent payment, my apartment complex could start eviction proceedings against me.

Now I've personally got more than enough in savings to be able to move jobs if I so desired, but when a large percentage of this country has little to nothing in savings, they don't have the same luxuries that you and I enjoy.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#415

Post by shimon »

EpicEng wrote: post #12
nebulous1 wrote: post #4

I mean, they get such bad press for the way they treat their workers it only seems fair to laud them for this. Good move. They have more to do though. I've went through a few articles on this but I didn't see any of them mention what Amazon's minimum actual pay was before this, just the federal minimum wage. Anybody know?

For what it's worth, someone on reddit says $12 https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/9kpeal/amazon_raises_...

Quick back-of-the-envelope math:

Let's assume this raise will affect 250k workers this coming holiday season, bumping their pay from $12 to $15 (+$3).

Over 12 weeks at 40h/week, this represents an additional $360M in labor cost.

Using AMZN's 2017 revenue of 177.9B, this equates to 17.7 revenue-hours.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#416

Post by throwaway080383 »

shawnz wrote: post #278
baldfat wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying your salary is based on keeping the working poor? OR are you saying you think corporations and their investors deserve a low wage workforce that the government will take care of with your tax dollars? I find no logical sense other then your mad that people can make money for WORKING. When people make $15 an hour they will need less government assistance. This will take away from corporate's profits, wh…

I don't think they are saying anything like that. I think they are saying that a minimum wage increase would bring the lowest earners closer to the higher earners, rather than causing inflation across the board. So that's a good thing if you care about wealth inequality.

Yes, to be clear, I think raising the minimum wage and decreasing wealth inequality is a good thing, even if it marginally negatively affects me in the short term.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#417

Post by Kim_Bruning »

Balero wrote: post #215
kork__ wrote: post #88

Socialism has only been tried in third world hell holes like Russia and succeeded so far beyond expectations it ended up being called the second world. A first world country going socialist would be the equivalent of increasing GDP by between 50 to 500%.

The very definition of second and third world were created and based off of the cold war. 1st world = USA/Western Europe + allies 2nd world = USSR/China + allies 3rd world = Everyone else. By definition Russia started as a 2nd world country. Now your point about Russia not being on the level of western Europe pre-1917, is a very good point. They were year behind in industrialising (for a variety of reasons, including…

It's actually a bit funny...

* East Germany was practicing State Capitalism with Communism as the ultimate goal.

* West Germany was practicing Social Democracy, aiming at capitalist growth.

Which of the two was actually (more) socialist (in the sense of reaching socialist aims) ? O:-)

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#418

Post by throwaway080383 »

refurb wrote: post #390
throwaway080383 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all relative. If minimum wage workers get their income doubled, but my income does not double, then they are doing better relative to me than they were before. And I do not expect my salary to double upon passing of such legislation.

Of course a minimum wage increase pushes all wages up. If you were working at Amazon for $15/hr before this change and the other guy was working at $12/hr, but now makes $15/hr, wouldn't you want a raise?

I'm saying it will not push my wages up. And that's a good thing.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#419

Post by SilasX »

ashelmire wrote: post #101
chrisseaton wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've got no sense of humour, but I think that's unprofessional and something like bullying, rather than funny. Legislation should surely not target one individual by name like that?

I think turning your employees into welfare-dependent wage-slaves is far worse than unprofessional or bullying, but I guess that's just me and most decent people. CEOs of large public companies have to take public heat, by name, quite often. It's a huge part of their job; otherwise they'd be COOs.

And I think that kidnapping someone is a greater crime than looking through their backpack without probable cause, but the government is supposed to be held to higher standards.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#420

Post by exolymph »

XorNot wrote: post #272
maxlybbert wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that many people aren’t worth $15/hour. Having a well-stocked grocery store is worth $15/hour if the person doing the job is fast. But slower stockers may lose their jobs altogether. Most companies I’ve worked at have had mailrooms. Very few have had people actually working in them. Which tells me that when the buildings were designed, the mailroom was considered valuable enough to include in the…

Or you know, email and that internet thing got pretty big.

Yes, as encompassed in "it stopped being valuable enough to staff."
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