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Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#411

Post by dleslie »

eropple wrote: post #360
dleslie wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assume good faith, certainly; but when compiling the code shows strong evidence that the assumption was incorrect... Questions of process are made valid when it becomes clear there may be a flaw in the process which was applied. Asking them if they compiled the code is warranted, is it not?

No; it's just being shitty, and to be frank I think you know that. "This code has more warnings than we accept under our process; please remedy." You aren't telling onlookers that they will be lit on fire for the temerity to contribute, you aren't causing anyone to lose face and you aren't hurting anyone . No aspersions, no chilling effects, and a positive path forward. Done and done. Everyone wins. To do otherwise i…

> "This code has more warnings than we accept under our process; please remedy."

That fails to address the possibility that their process is broken, and so achieves the possibility of inducing technical debt when these issues will inevitably arise again.

Fixing process can be as important as fixing code.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#412

Post by JohnBooty »

taeric wrote: post #341
JohnBooty wrote: post #323

> I'm still not exactly the most empathetic person. > But I'm hoping I can at least 'fake it until I > make it'. This is great! If you ask me, "faking it" is really just as good as "actually" being a more helpful or empathetic person. What do you think "actually" being a helpful or empathetic person is like? It's basically just continually expending the effort to be helpful and empathetic. Let's say my brother calls…

Depends entirely on how good you are at faking it. That is, if it can be easily seen that you are faking; then no, it is not as good. Not even close. Your brother scenario is silly. If someone calls and I don't want to help, but can. I'll be honest and make my own choice. If they ask if this is what I'd truly like to be doing, I'll always say no. However, in most cases, I don't actually care what I'm doing. Could I c…

> Your brother scenario is silly.

Sure, analogies are pretty flawed usually. I sort of regret typing it. Let's get back to Linus. What's the difference between:

  (a) A person staying respectful in their emails because it is natural and effortless for him

  --and--

  (b) Linus staying respectful in his emails because he's putting in conscious effort to stay respectful
I would argue that there's no difference! Because it's never 100% natural for anybody; it always requires some effort even if it's easier for some of us than others.

I think we would all agree that (b) would be creepy IF Linus was being deceptively nice for some sort of dubious or dishonest reason. Like a con artist trying to develop bonds so they can rob you or something. But, that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm taking him at his word here, but all indications are that Linus is just trying to get better at treating people respectfully because he thinks it's the right thing to do.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#413

Post by JohnBooty »

taeric wrote: post #364
thetrumanshow wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the far end of the scale, if you always answer, "Would you like to help us carry this heavy stuff down these stairs?" with "No, in fact I would loathe that, but I will comply in order to maintain the social bonds that are necessary to sustain my chemically-driven life functions for the long term."... then that will be problematic for your relationships. I'm like you, I say yes often, and I'm honest about how excit…

I think I misrepresented. Most people just ask, "can you come help?" To that I'll answer how long it would take me to get over there if I can, and start heading that way. Few people ask "would you like to help me" do anything. The answers really are different. That is, you aren't faking it by being nice. You are just not bringing in extra crap to the discussion. Can you do dinner tonight? Yes or no. Not, I'd rather g…

     People like to talk about how he is abrasive to nvidia
That's a really good point. Overlooked in this discussion over Linus' manners are the times when he was abusive toward people who arguably deserved it, like nVidia who has historically not been a great community member.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#414

Post by kyberias »

mcguire wrote: post #400
kyberias wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just super funny. It always will be.

It is, absolutely. If you view software development as entertainment. If you view it asa profession, maybe not.

Not true. The fact that professional software developer sometimes uses profane language does not mean it is not funny.

I think Linus was actually trying to be funny with those statements. Some of us understand that humor, some of us don't.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#415

Post by s73v3r_ »

smoothy2 wrote: post #326
notacoward wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a minority (non-white) person, I don't need you to speak for me and me to be your pet. Nor was I making you one. There's nothing patronizing about pointing out how language can affect different people differently. Surely you're aware that others do need and appreciate people who will use whatever advantages they have to help raise awareness of these issues. Please don't use your own personal good fortune to prom…

I'm not sure you realize but this exact tone of discourse comes across as patronizing. Please stop playing messiah for minorities. Also, I'm not some super rich privileged person. As a matter of fact, I'm unemployed right now but privilege or no privilege, there's no reason to cripple good open source software which is already one of the most equalizing resources that has been produced by mankind.

" there's no reason to cripple good open source software"

Nobody is doing that. No one. That is not happening at all. I'm sorry, but people not being assholes to each other is not going to affect the quality of software in a negative manner.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#417

Post by sumeno »

jbob2000 wrote: post #409
sumeno wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the scenario where it is necessary for a leader to tell someone they should have been aborted?

My parents joke about that with my brother and I; "Dammit jbob, we should have aborted you!". Jokes like these require context and when you look at them from the outside, they look terrible. It's not "necessary", but then again, neither is 90% of human communication, my parents could have just said "You. Bad action. Fix." That seems to be what's missing from this whole SJW movement; context. These people watch from t…

Just because there are contexts where it wouldn't be bad doesn't mean that the example fits that narrow context.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#418

Post by s73v3r_ »

scrollaway wrote: post #251
mhjas wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have a combative environment most unopinionated people leave. I don't think there is any secret that there are a lot of us out there that aren't very excited about Linux anymore. Just that most of us decided to spend time on something else instead.

And that's... Linus' fault? Are you talking about kernel development or Linux as a consumer OS?

I mean, as the leader of the project, he is the one who sets the culture and the norms.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I'll never be cuddly but I can be more polite'

#420

Post by gwbas1c »

yashap wrote: post #33

His quotes about political correctness are pretty interesting. Basically that neo-Nazis have tried to brand themselves as “just practical people against excessive political correctness,” but really that’s just a facade covering their true hate and racism. But now, if you’re ACTUALLY just someone who’s against excessive political correctness, you risk being associated with neo-Nazis. I’d consider myself pretty left-wi…

> Basically that neo-Nazis have tried to brand themselves as “just practical people against excessive political correctness,”

Don't conflate the alt-right with neo-nazis. Neo-nazis are people who explicitly define themselves as such. Other people who have the mindset that leads to things like nazism don't realize it. They really aren't trying to hide anything; they just have certain fears and concerns that the left isn't empathetic enough to address.

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