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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have kids? do you have other hobbies? are you always working? do you have time to read and not passively listen to books or podcasts? do you really enjoy that time or are you just comforted by the notion it's not all for not? I'm not trying to say how you should or shouldn't feel. I did lots of commuting over the years and I too said the same things you said... but now that I'm 42, now that my kids are older a…

For many people the commute is the only, or at least the majority, 'alone time' that they have. I step off the bus and my heart sinks as I re-enter the maelstrom of family life. The only other me-time I have is getting up at 05:30 to go for a run, which is magnitudes less pleasant than sitting on a bus. So, as you say, everyone's opinion of commuting time differs. For me it is a highlight of the day.

I don't want to put words into your mouth or say how you feel is wrong, but like I said, I felt the same for the longest time too.

Now my morning run is me time - I run where I want to run, I wave to people, I smile, I pet the random dog that runs up to me, I smell the fresh air, I sense the warmth of summer, the coolness of fall and the crispness of winter. I feel the sun on my back, the wind on my face. I can listen to music, I can listen to an audiobook - my mind is clear - think the most and remember the most when i'm out on my jog.

When I commuted to work, it was so mindless sometimes I forgot how I even got from point a to b. On the bus or the train or sitting in my car, I wasn't there with nature, I wasn't there in mind/body/spirit. I was kept busy by stuff I didn't really pay attention to because it was all a distraction from the commute that I lied to myself was what mattered as me time.

at 5:30 in the morning - there is a good chance you will see the stars set and the sunrise - the birds chirp. You run - you start feeling better, you feel healthier, you feel more alive. You get back home and that coffee tastes better, that shower feels better. YOur muscles ache less and less as you do it.

That commute - unless you happen to be lucky enough to be bush pilot flying the mountains of Alaska to get to work or a park ranger driving thorugh a national park to get to work usually doesn't offer what we take foregranted but forget what life should be about.

When I lived in PA i had to commute 1.5 hours each way and i too swore to myself how good that "me time" was...

figure 253 working days a year, in one year I spend 759 hours just getting back and forth to work - not including all the extra time, bad days, slow days or working late, or having to come in early or use my free time to study, answer alerts/pages or stay ahead of tech/services/requirements that is a lot of time. Really put into perspective when you realize 750 hours is essentially 19 weeks of man hours of worka year. I couldn't name a book, or learn anything new or remember a damn thing that happened during those commuting days - but i could remember how bad traffic was, what time every school got out and how often i ran across the same asshole on the way to work or home and what frequency life sucked because of holidays/events/activities going on.

i guess my point is, if you can enjoy it, by all means enjoy it, but don't do what i did and fool yourself into enjoying it without realizing you weren't getting out of it what you perceived you were.

Its kind of a shame we're good at convincing ourselves something like a jog, where we're alone in nature with mind, body and spirit is "bad" but in the hustle and bustle of senseless rush to get to work or get back home - we see that as a me time. (not saying this is how you feel, but how i perceive the quirks of our society)

Also, lets not forget, if you had a 10 minute commute to work your run may be at 7:30 instead of 5:30 or it could be at 5:30 pm instead of 5:30 a.m which may be more enjoyable for you. Or you could go fishing before/after work or just spend an hour at starbucks enjoying a coffee rather than sitting in traffic by choice.

The first year i stopped commuting i started going fishing at a small pond on my way to work. I'd just keep a collapsable rod in my car and some lures. I got good at catching large mouth bass and crappy and i got to see the bats, birds, fish, deer and that 45 minutes of fishing before work was the best healing for my spirit i could ever ask for. Thats mother fucking ME time right there!

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#412
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

> "I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies" Have you stopped to consider the unintended consequences of this? Mainly, that you become so comfortable with lack of adversity and diversity (of ideas, etc.) that when the time comes to leave the bubble you're unprepared. You don't have the tools and mindset to adjust to those who are unlike you. Yes. It's nice to…

You're absolutely right! It's very possible to become so inculcated with the level norms and comfort and lack of diversity of a community that you cannot function outside that bubble. You lack the tools to even consider such a thing.

It's a terrifying thing. You've described the experience many have upon moving out of a small town in the Midwest. A good friend is having the same experience now when she looks to move away from the Bay Area.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#413
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

"The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part of, where I was always welcome and could always rely on finding people like me." People who think like you do, who will never challenge you about anything important, or expose you to uncomfortable ideas or opinions, or cause you to question your assumptions about the world.

You're right. Squishies like self-similar bubbles. And squishies like the idea that their bubble is better than every other bubble, if other squishies could just be forced to adapt to it.

This seems to be true of most squishies, no matter how they connect.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#414
post #134

The article identifies some problems but totally misses their actual source. The problem isn't that we own less stuff, it's that the ownership is replaced by a dependency on a handful of corporations which we have no ability to influence or appeal to. The substitution of individual ownership for a communal one in which individuals retain a stake - a real community, or at a larger scale, a democracy - is not inherentl…

The scary thing is that these private companies have an superhuman memory and are motivated to judge my worth as a customer. The article alludes to Amazon disabling accounts, but in the near future anyone can be blackballed from a major transport provider (Uber), communications service (Facebook, WhatsApp), store (Amazon), news source, TV network (YouTube, NetFlix), etc. with little to no recourse.

Up until this point in history having cash was all you needed to complete a transaction. Now you have to maintain your status as a “good” consumer, under the threat that you will be defacto excluded from a part of society by an algorithm. At which time you lose access to the platform as well as all your previous purchases.

There are also companies who are commoditising digital reputation. So a single, private, company will be able to effectively turn you into a pariah.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#415
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've owned VHS's, they're worthless ... > I've owned DVD's - they're worthless > I've owned Books - they're worthless I honestly find this unbelievable and amazing. You have never rewatched a video, or re-read a book? You've never lent a movie or a book to a friend? You've never used a movie or a book to job your memory and spark a conversation with someone? There is value in all of those things to me, not to menti…

I have MUCH more access to all the worlds books, movies, television shows, music libraries and documentaries by paying for a service or using the library then I would ever have in trying to own it. I'm not sure re-watching or re-reading anything is really limited or granted by owning... Lets take netflix for example. If there is something on netflix that i want a friend to see and they don't have netflix, i can just…

You're more arguing the differences between digital and physical technologies than you are arguing the merits of ownership as such.

If we can ignore ethics for a moment, piracy still provides a superior product than rentals because pirated objects don't lock you into particular ecosystems nor does it prohibit you from using the product in any way.

Given the choice, I don't want to have to buy an apple, android, or windows phone/tablet just to download movies to watch while camping or something. I would rather have the freedom to do whatever I want with the things I paid for.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#416
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

> Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. I.e. echo chamber.

Every community is an echo chamber, digital and analog alike.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#417

I’m surprised at the criticism here and I think the critics are missing the author’s point. He’s not saying, “buy more stuff you don’t need” or even, “possess more stuff.” He’s saying, “you ought to own the stuff you possess.” Which I didn’t think was a controversial opinion but I guess I stand corrected. I might be an outlier. I make a deliberate effort to own instead of rent. My commute is enormous because I moved…

What is the value of "owning" something? I've owned VHS's, they're worthless I've owned houses - that I had to short sell I've owned DVD's - they're worthless I've owned Books - they're worthless What is the value of owning over just paying to enjoy access? I like spotify because i can sync music to my phone to play offline - but "owning" all this music is worthless... I had a HUGE cd collection growing up but they w…

I do have Netflix, and other subscription services, but by the nature of licensing, they're very limited. Do you only watch/read/etc the most common, most popular, current movies/music/etc? If you seek out anything a little off the beaten path, you pretty much have to own it or you won't be able to consume it, or get access to it later.

For example, I recently went through several lists of underrated (i.e. not the megahits like Ghostbusters or Indiana Jones) movies from the 80s and 90s and I'm hunting them down and watching them. Of the seven movies I watched this past couple of weeks (About Last Night, How to Get Ahead in Advertising, Nothing But Trouble, Other People's Money, The Wrong Guy, Top Secret, Used Cars), ZERO of them can be found on Netflix or Hulu. Five of them can be rented individually from Amazon Prime at $4 a pop, but aren't included in their prime subscription that I already pay ~$100 a year for. That's the full extent of how you can get access to these movies from subscription services. I could have just stuck with what subscription services offer, but if it's not something new the selection gets increasingly worse and worse.

Is that what you want the future to be like? Where these movies might as well have disappeared off the face of the earth because no one can get ahold of them anymore? Because that's the direction we're starting to go in with more and more things going digital only and subscription only.

I used to work in the video game industry, but I have almost nothing to show for it outside of some trailers on Youtube, because almost all of those games were released on digital channels and are no longer available to download. I had two games on the Wii Shop and the Wii Shop is now closed and the company is defunct, so those games are gone. Another on Xbox Live for 360, and a couple of Xbox Indie Games that you can't get anymore because they killed the service. The only game you can still get is Neverland Card Battles on the PSP, and that's because it was released as a physical game.

You can still also play my Flash games I did before I got into the industry, at least until browsers kill Flash off entirely. There was a whole thread on HN recently about how we're about to lose a whole decade of culture from Flash and how one guy is trying to preserve it as best as he can.

Not being able to own the media (even if only in digital form) sucks, because companies can't be trusted to always remain solvent, always have license agreements in place, and always care about keeping all the content available for people to get. If you don't care about the content, then you probably don't care that you only get some access to some stuff some of the time, but for those that care about the time and energy that creators put in and want to experience and share those things with people that may have missed it the first time around or whole new generations of people, this current trend is terrible.

That's actually one reason why I shifted gears and started designing board games the past few years. I have perfectly good and playable copies of board games that are 60 years old now, decades after the companies have gone out of business. I won't have to go through extra effort to make sure that people can still have access to my board games long after I'm dead.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#418
post #134

The article identifies some problems but totally misses their actual source. The problem isn't that we own less stuff, it's that the ownership is replaced by a dependency on a handful of corporations which we have no ability to influence or appeal to. The substitution of individual ownership for a communal one in which individuals retain a stake - a real community, or at a larger scale, a democracy - is not inherentl…

Depending on those handful of corporations may be a problem, but it also may not be. You depend on a handful of corporations for many important services, and I'd bet you mostly doesn't even notice that. It depends mostly on regulations and competitiveness of the market (and more on the quality of those than their existence).

Besides, a for profit service can create a community just as well as a communal repartition of it. It adds another risk to the community, of the service provider going bad, but it's not some overwhelming factor that makes all other irrelevant. Like it or not, you are sharing stuff when you rent them, the resource pooling is present (more or less present, depending on the renting modality), people are coming together (or not, depending on how it's shared), and there is social development just like with a communal resource.

The problem of Uber|etc and Netflix|etc is much more on how they do the renting than on they actually renting things.

There is some related problem you didn't point, in that once people start pooling some resource they didn't use fully, they should become more wealthy. We are not seeing this, so is it that the pooling isn't efficient or is it because people are being forced into pooling them by poverty? Either way, it's a problem.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#419
It's amusing and/or alarming, depending on your mood, that someone like Cowen, a believer in the market's solutions, can sound so similar to Stallman on this issue. Stallman pounds the same talking points over and over, but he founded a movement and released products that espoused the change he wanted to see in this world. Yet despite the tangibility of his works, the market and field is flooded with clickwraps, SaaS, and mandatory arbitration. And this extends beyond infotech, where as the article notes, rentier things are proliferating.

In many cases in the real world, the economics of the rent-based solutions are the only ones that make sense for the consumer, because alternatives require steep barriers to entry that are hard to surmount. This is the case when prices on land and houses require loans and money down, or when comparable services don't exist due to requirements in capital, expertise, and IP. Sometimes this price is artificially low (Google, Facebook, Uber) or artificially high (mobile data), but it's hard to compete with free, and hard to start a cellphone network. In one case, giant corporations are dumping at a fictitious price to encourage an ecosystem, while in the other, giant corporations are buying into a moat of intellectual property while paying large bills on the immense infrastructure that enables their service model.

When fewer people can afford to become meaningful shareholders, or band together to start alternatives, the more likely they are to be on the passive end of this transition. This is what we're seeing now.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I make a deliberate effort to own instead of rent. In GENERAL, it seems like it takes a lot more money and resources nowadays to do this, relative to other benefits you can have. In Media, having a wall of $19.99 blue-rays and an apple music full of albums is going to cost you a lot more given how must people consume media (a lot, and constantly). The cost to get that permanence is like an order of magnitude over m…

> In GENERAL, it seems like it takes a lot more money and resources nowadays to do this, relative to other benefits you can have. If you're talking about small ticket items, this seems true, but it certainly doesn't hold for more consequential expenditures like real estate or even cars.

It's especially true for cars. Uber style car renting brings a much higher utilization for them, and the costs of car ownership are almost all in capital and fixed ones.
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