Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#411

Post by roustem » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

0culus wrote: post #366

roustem wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the HN users reading this thread do understand the difference between licenses and subscriptions. It may seem strange but this is not the case for the vast majority of the users. We have customers emailing us about having a 1Password account/subscription since before 2015 (when we only had licenses). We originally started with offering both licenses and subscription as equal options. Here is how it looked: ht…

Honestly, I will be happy if you continue to support licenses vs. subscriptions as an option + syncing with the cloud service of choice (I use iCloud). My use case is pretty simple. I don't need fancy integrations. I just want an easy to use solution that protects my passwords and enables me to use it across my Apple devices...which is what my (licensed) 1Password 6 does wonderfully for me now, across two Macs, my iP…

Thanks! Sounds like you will be happy then :)

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#412

Post by bwoodruff » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

kobayashi wrote: post #164

shinratdr wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it still does all that stuff. I get that these moves make people nervous, and rightfully so. But as it stands every version of 1Password in active development (not including maintenance mode): * Can be licensed standalone. * Supports local & Dropbox vaults. * Was released within the last year, actively supporting those features. The only feature they’ve actually killed off (by not baking into future clien…

Are you sure they’ve killed WLAN sync??

1Password 7 for Windows does not have WLAN sync. If that is something you have a need for, we’re collecting feedback: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/87524/on-wlan-s...

Ben Woodruff

AgileBits

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#413

Post by AGKyle » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

Groxx wrote: post #324

Groxx wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super frustrating how vague and contradictory they're being about this :\ I understand why they're subscription-only for the mac app store, as a way around its insane lack of pricing flexibility. Makes sense, fully support, etc. But they seem to be continually pushing the non-cloud options further and further away from visibility :|

Late update: I asked on twitter, got an answer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17115334 Subscriptions will only support cloud sync, not local.

Sorry for the confusion. This is simply incorrect and I need to hunt down who is saying otherwise and get this fixed on our end.

If you have a subscription you can create standalone vaults outside of your subscription and sync those using iCloud, Dropbox or WLAN sync if you wish.

This behaves the same in version 7 as it did in version 6.

Kyle

AgileBits

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#414

Post by roustem » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

tbyehl wrote: post #377

roustem wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 1Password for Mac had WLAN sync implemented in version 4 there is no reason for us to remove it. 1Password for Windows is a full rewrite and the new codebase never had WLAN sync. We wanted to see if people really need it when we announced 1Password 7 for Windows: https://blog.agilebits.com/2018/03/20/introducing-1password-... I think so far we had about 90 people expressing interest in it. For a product with ov…

How many customers read your blog? That post has 225 comments. From that base, 90 people expressing interest in a feature sounds HUGE. I don't care about that feature... but this HN thread is the first I'd noticed that 1Password 7 for Windows actually exists and finally brings back local vault support. I care very much about that. I'd have liked to know about that the minute a public beta landed. But... I spend appro…

Did you subscribe to our newsletter? We also sent an email about it.

Blog and newsletter are the only options we have to communicate with our customers. I agree that it is not enough and not everyone receives this information.

If you have an idea how we can make it better, please let me know!

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#415

Post by roustem » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

digianarchist wrote: post #293

DavideNL wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's so much better than for example Bitwarden for families, which is $1/month. ( https://bitwarden.com ) Also, the switch to the "1password cloud", instead of the already freely available iCloud/Google Cloud/Dropbox etc, just seems like a move to make people believe their expensive subscription are justified. There was absolutely no demand for a "1password cloud". This entire push to subscription-hell ma…

I'd give them the $5 a month for a subscription but I want to host the data on iCloud.

You can do that. It is possible to have a subscription and also host a vault on iCloud.

If you only want to use iCloud then you might be served better with a license.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#416

Post by bwoodruff » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

tbyehl wrote: post #377

roustem wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 1Password for Mac had WLAN sync implemented in version 4 there is no reason for us to remove it. 1Password for Windows is a full rewrite and the new codebase never had WLAN sync. We wanted to see if people really need it when we announced 1Password 7 for Windows: https://blog.agilebits.com/2018/03/20/introducing-1password-... I think so far we had about 90 people expressing interest in it. For a product with ov…

How many customers read your blog? That post has 225 comments. From that base, 90 people expressing interest in a feature sounds HUGE. I don't care about that feature... but this HN thread is the first I'd noticed that 1Password 7 for Windows actually exists and finally brings back local vault support. I care very much about that. I'd have liked to know about that the minute a public beta landed. But... I spend appro…

That is a real challenge. On one hand we love talking about 1Passsword and what we’re working on. On the other hand...

1) We often don’t even have contact details for customers (e.x. App Store purchases) 2) When we do have such contact details they may have only been given for the purpose of completing a transaction, and did not agree to receive a newsletter or ongoing communications 3) Even when none of the above is a barrier it is very time intensive to send a newsletter. Not only does it require a fair bit of time to craft but the volume of inflows to our customer support team after sending a newsletter are huge.

I understand and agree with your position that putting the onus of keeping up on what is happening at AgileBits on the customer is no solution, but we do have to balance the above considerations. We’ll continue to look for ways we can do better.

Ben Woodruff

AgileBits

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#417

Post by roustem » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #127

bpicolo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably nothing other than ease of use, but the old model isn't part of the equation for me. 5 bucks a month for my whole family to have good password security practices, and for 1password to sustain continuous updates, is a great deal.

Something as critical as "password infrastructure" should absolutely never be a subscription model. Pay software, sure. But by no means should anybody other than you have the ability to refuse access, especially some company where you are nothing but a $5/month number. I would be more forgiving if the subscription was for value-added features, like dynamic syncing, or remote encrypted storage. But it ain't.

I completely disagree. If it is critical then it requires constant monitoring and regular updates.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#418

Post by bwoodruff » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

NLips wrote: post #389

roustem wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at 1Password features, a lot of them are simply not feasible to implement without having a server-side component. Most of them revolve around sharing, permissions, automatic backups, account recovery, 2FA, etc. Vault sharing is simply impossible with iCloud. Sharing with Dropbox requires manual set up of shared folders.

If you don't have a server-side component, you already have 2FA - your password and your non-syncing device.

This is a very good point that most people fail to understand. We get frequent demands to add 2FA to standalone vaults... the best we can do is try to explain.

Ben Woodruff

AgileBits

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#419

Post by AGKyle » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

Groxx wrote: post #367

akerl_ wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m currently using the 1Password 7 beta with a subscription and no standalone license. I have one vault that is stored in Dropbox and another that is just local. I have no idea why they’ve decided to handle what they’ve called out elsewhere in this thread as an “advanced feature” that won’t be going away by lying about the feature not existing. It seems so weird because their subscriptions work exactly how I’d want…

Yeah, if it is (and stays) like "memberships get all apps + cloud sync + can still use dropbox sync" I'll happily switch. But I've asked them this question like 4 or 5 times now, and each time I've gotten a slightly different answer . It's completely ridiculous. And it's burning trust, in a fairly inherently distrustful crowd like you get when you're in the security / crypto field.

I'll clarify for you then :) I'm a developer on our Apple team (Mac and iOS).

If you purchase a subscription you can create standalone vaults and sync them to Dropbox, iCloud, WLAN or Folder just as if you had purchased a license. You'll have both an account (which has vaults in it) and standalone local vaults that can be synced as above.

This is how it behaves in version 6 and nothing has changed with this in version 7.

So if you'd rather have a subscription AND just use standalone vaults you're welcome to do that.

Not however that this may not be true for Android or Windows. I'd have to double check with those teams as to how they do it but at least with regard to Apple platforms this is a viable option if you so choose.

I've brought this topic up internally and hope that we can all be on the same page. My suspicion is that someone from a non-Apple side of the company is answering these. It's tough because our Windows and Android apps are still trying to play catchup with Mac and iOS, so they may not do things that Mac and iOS do.

I do apologize for the confusion though. That said though you can take my answer and trust it. If you have questions though please reach out to our support and mention me specifically (Kyle) and they'll get you in touch with me.

Kyle

AgileBits

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#420

Post by bwoodruff » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #178

akerl_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting (and not super obvious because of their marketing) that "getting a subscription" and "using their cloud sync" are not a mutual requirement. You can pay via subscription and continue using local/Dropbox/etc vaults. This part was super confusing to me until I dug deeper when a friend upgraded. So the primary impact of switching from standalone license to subscription, if you're planning on using 1Pass…

The developer's comments on the article contradict what you're saying: > 1Password 7 from the Mac App Store will only support our hosted service, as that’s what you’re purchasing with a 1Password membership. If you install from our website, you’ll have to option to use a standalone vault synced via iCloud if you purchase a standalone license, or use our hosted service if you purchase a 1Password membership. > As it s…

If you download 1Password through our website instead of the Mac App Store you can indeed use a subscription with standalone vaults. It isn’t the recommended configuration, as you’re paying for features you can’t use, but it is possible. We intentionally don’t talk about this in marketing as in the past it has caused a lot of confusion, particularly with less technical users. HN is obviously a different audience, and we can talk about that here.

Ben Woodruff

AgileBits