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James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

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Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#411

Post by ryanbrunner »

zamalek wrote: post #337
sp332 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making someone question whether they are qualified is better than not hiring them at all. Quotas are useful if you have reason to believe that your hiring process is biased and you are missing out on qualified candidates. That way you're not passing up too many candidates from specific groups that you're having a hard time characterizing.

Quotas do have their place for instigating change, to more correctly state my views (which are incredibly complex, just like the subject is): I think that they rapidly outgrow their usefulness. If you have women in hire/fire positions, in theory the bias should work itself out. It probably wouldn't in reality. It's a nasty situation. We want to make progress as society, which means quantifying that progress (quotas m…

> If you have women in hire/fire positions, in theory the bias should work itself out. It probably wouldn't in reality.

I think this is a common, and pretty unfounded claim that people make. In my experience, men and women are both perfectly capable of having harmful opinions on gender roles.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#412

Post by yazaddaruvala »

threeseed wrote: post #225
TheRealPomax wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem unfamiliar with the power of litigation. The case won't be about "him being fired", but about showing there is any pattern for bias in Google with respects to the three stated criteria. And if they can show that bias exists, then still without making this about him, specifically, the court can be asked to apply punitive measures against google (which their client "happens to benefit from, being part of the g…

Explain to me where Google asks when you are hired whether you are white, male or conservative. I have worked for a dozen Fortune 500 sized companies now and not once has it ever come up. He wasn't fired for any of those aspects anyway. He was fired because he chose to act in an unprofessional manner.

Regardless of our personal feelings about the matter, the sad fact is, it might be as simple as the lawyers finding female Googlers who have public statements remotely anti-male who were not fired.

I am not a lawyer but that, while trivial, might be enough for a court to rule against Google.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#413

Post by rainbowmverse »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #341
jgh wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has what worked in the past? Admitting you were wrong and apologizing? Sure it's a good way of resolving conflicts if you were actually wrong. People grow and change throughout life, I don't think that being a knucklehead in the past necessarily means you're a knucklehead now.

Admitting you were wrong and apologizing in public , specifically. An individual can be reasoned with, placated. You can make reparations, promises that the other person will believe because of a precedent of mutual trust and forgiveness. However, you can't do that with an angry mob.

The angry mob is irrelevant. There are more individuals watching quietly than people making their positions public. The mob will chill when their friends ask them to post-apology. I have been on all sides of this phenomenon: the chiller, the chillee, the apology. It works.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#414

Post by [deleted] »

dotnetisnotdead wrote: post #296

Honestly, this whole thing is just ugly. I read what he wrote. It was (mostly) ugly but contained a lot of truth. Before you downvote/call me a Nazi, I'm a mixed race woman in tech. I definitely see people hired just because of their minority status. I also see people hired who are minorities but also great at their job. It's not a binary pattern. But those who are hired just because they are a POC or female, yet are…

[deleted]

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#416

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

ihsw2 wrote: post #364
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ran a traditional company, and were interviewing a candidate who wanted to bring about the destruction of capitalism, would you hire them if there were equally-good alternatives?

If they lacked the emotional regulation to restrain themselves then that would be a red flag that disqualifies them.

Would publishing and distributing a manifesto amongst your colleagues fall beyond 'restraint'?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#418

Post by manigandham »

dotnetisnotdead wrote: post #296

Honestly, this whole thing is just ugly. I read what he wrote. It was (mostly) ugly but contained a lot of truth. Before you downvote/call me a Nazi, I'm a mixed race woman in tech. I definitely see people hired just because of their minority status. I also see people hired who are minorities but also great at their job. It's not a binary pattern. But those who are hired just because they are a POC or female, yet are…

Diversity based on outward appearance is one of the most convoluted and ridiculous movements ever. We cannot spend decades trying to show that appearance is absolutely meaningless to talent, skills, and motivation, and then regress right back to it to show off "diversity".

Also nobody ever seems to ask: diversity of what exactly? What's the target? Life experience? There is no qualitative score for that, nor is any single person's life more or less interesting and influential than anyone else.

The only thing we can objectively and accurately measure is merit, motivation, and results, and we should use those metrics alone for hiring and advancement, in addition to fighting subjective bias (like removing names and photos from resumes) and making sure there's equivalent opportunity for anyone to try. After that, it would be best if just let people do what they want to do and move on.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#419

Post by ocdtrekkie »

paulcole wrote: post #408
john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

> due to a stupid political game he didn't even realize he was playing If he didn't know exactly what he was doing he deserves whatever happens to him for being so oblivious to the world around him.

Perhaps you should read up a little on Autism Spectrum Disorder. James Damore almost certainly tends to the autistic, and it can lead to both some insensitive statements not intended the way they were taken, and being unable to recognize some of the social situations he was put in.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#420

Post by [deleted] »

namelost wrote: post #374
debt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never okay to destroy a man's life, but he made a poor choice to have his life destroyed. I don't know why he did that. People do stupid things all the time. Centuries of gender discrimination, in a field that is very publicly plagued by it, in a world that is still broken with it, what was Damore thinking? Everyone has the freedom to act, but no one has freedom from the consequences of the act.

That is a very strange notion of freedom (albeit pervasive). Everybody has the freedom to shoplift but no one has freedom from the consequences of shoplifting.

[deleted]
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