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Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

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Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#411

Post by ygaf »

diryawish wrote: post #108
yardie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were far more candidates that did not run on racist, misogynist platforms, ie. Bush, Rubio, Johnson. Trump was never the most moderate. The Republican party didn't even choose him. Their constituents did. And if they had been paying attention they would have known a demagogue could have walked off with the party base.

I take that back; Kasich was the most moderate. He also had very little charisma, unfortunately. He could have been a perfect VP for this administration if the two could get along. Trump was typically more moderate on the economy and tax policy, abortion, military. His stance on immigration is the more conservative than the rest. Rubio and most of the rest were very strict on abortion, had typical Republican ideas on…

I was thrown by your claim, but that all makes perfect sense.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#412

Post by grasshopperpurp »

cyphar wrote: post #409
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the way the white supremacists want you to think. They want you to normalize them and say, 'All violence is bad - from either side.' "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the…

All authoritarian, violent actors want you to think that violence (especially of the preemptive variety) is justified for their particular set of ideals. The viewpoint discussed in that MLK quote is not my viewpoint, he talks about people who are against violence even in the instance of retaliation. I am all for equivalent response when it comes to a conflict, but "punch a Nazi" et al was about preemptively escalatin…

That's fair enough, and I understand that you're trying to be an even, measured person, and I applaud you for that. When dealing with Nazis and white supremacists, though, we have to understand that their very existence is violence. For anyone with any decency within them, there is no middle ground to reach with a white supremacist. Think about it. What would the middle ground look like? OK, you can't lynch or kick out all minorities, but we'll let you have half? A third? It's ridiculous to even consider. The only answer is to snuff them out, and it will likely require a great deal of violence. MLK knew it; Malcolm X knew it; and every black person in America with half a pulse knows it.

Remember Ferguson? Remember how the Oath Keepers marched through black neighborhoods with machine guns? Can you imagine if black people marched through white suburbs with machine guns? If you can't, look at why California has strict gun laws - the Black Panthers. Or, why were only a few people arrested in Virginia? And, why were they treated with more decency than people protesting police brutality or the Dakota Pipeline? It's white supremacy in action.

You say you're from a communist country, and you may not be aware of America's history with white supremacy, but it runs deep. People who make false equivocations between groups like BLM and the KKK are no better than the white supremacists themselves, and they're the ones that allow this sort of thing to continue - in 2017 FFS.

This sums it up well:

https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20800151_163...

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#413

Post by grasshopperpurp »

ygaf wrote: post #410
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the way the white supremacists want you to think. They want you to normalize them and say, 'All violence is bad - from either side.' "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the…

Law and order bring us the closest to justice. This "negative peace" is just the absence of perfect justice.

That's an MLK quote. You don't like it?

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#414

Post by ygaf »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #413
ygaf wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law and order bring us the closest to justice. This "negative peace" is just the absence of perfect justice.

That's an MLK quote. You don't like it?

Let's just say after the fatiguing year of outrages we've had, I'm tired of everyone's justice.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#415

Post by grasshopperpurp »

ygaf wrote: post #414
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an MLK quote. You don't like it?

Let's just say after the fatiguing year of outrages we've had, I'm tired of everyone's justice.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but this seems pretty apathetic.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#416

Post by talmand »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #407
talmand wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't play the game of false equivalence by comparing opposing groups. Especially in today's political and social climate.

Then what are you saying? I posted a screenshot of this conversation below. 1. Poster asks about other poster's position on the groups in question. 2. Other poster says, 'Pure cancer. All of them.' 3. I ask if poster is really equating groups like BLM to white supremacists. 4. You ask which part of the group. 5. I ask you what positive aspects can we attribute to white supremacists - since you seemed to be backing th…

I don't take responsibility for what others have stated. Since I'm not the one comparing groups I fail to see how I can be held responsible for that. I can have my opinion in the conversation without having to be lumped into something I didn't state. Stop trying to paint me into a corner so that you can label me in a negative way for your own benefit. You are attempting to do the childish response of "if you say this then you obviously must support that". Which is utter nonsense and you really should stop.

Things like your response is exactly why I stated I don't like playing the game of false equivalence by comparing opposing groups.

edit: let's try it this way, I wasn't doing the comparing, I was asking for clarification of what was being compared

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#417

Post by ygaf »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #415
ygaf wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just say after the fatiguing year of outrages we've had, I'm tired of everyone's justice.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but this seems pretty apathetic.

It's just the word itself. I've been straying from the substance and rigour of HN to the rabble rousing of FB and twitter.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#418

Post by throwawaymanbot »

jpetso wrote: post #190
throwawaymanbot wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would applaud you identifying as a moderate if I didn't read you just mock John Oliver, BLM, and the nut job whom you identified as a "left-wing" activist that shot the Member of Congress. so you are a moderate eh? > The mob has the intellect and the attention span of a goldfish.> This is quite a statement. You so wish this was true. If it was, then you could get away with writing trash opinions pretending to be mo…

The nut job volunteered for the Sanders campaign and asked if the people he was going to shoot were Democrats or Republicans. You might not identify him as left-wing but he sure as hell did himself. By the same logic, reasonable right-wingers could claim that the white supremacists aren't actually right-wing. That's different than just condemning their actions and calling them nut jobs. It shifts the problem away fro…

>If you are part of a political movement, or any group with strong opinions really, it's a moral duty not just to accept that there are people in your group who go too far but also to use your standing to call them out on it.Exactly thats why I'm calling you out on your commentary on this topic. So far you have only mentioned one particular "wing" and remain silent on the rest. Since you are someone from Austria (Supposedly) to use the term "extremists on both sides" to classify anti-nazis/anti-fascists is a real eye opener.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#419

Post by sanderjd »

graycat wrote: post #389
sanderjd wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have been more clear: when I wrote "it's clear", I meant "it's clear to me ". My point is that it has nothing to do with the news, it has to do with my personal interpretation of a primary source. I don't think the President's initial response was weasely equivocation because that's what the news said, but rather because I watched the video of it with my own eyes and ears and drew that conclusion. The "gossi…

Right, Trump's first statement was terrific but not "strong" on denouncing specific groups or people, nor should it have been. You are asking too much, way too much, of a responsible POTUS. You were asking at least for a much stronger statement before anyone had clear information, including you. That you thought you had clear information, and you didn't since not even the POTUS yet did, is from newsie gossip and mani…

Just saw this - at the point I wrote by first comment, I had already seen video of the white supremacists protestors chanting "jews will not replace us" and of people wearing Nazi symbolism fighting in the streets. Like I keep saying, these are all primary sources that are (and were) readily available.

Your "newsie gossip" theory is just incorrect.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#420

Post by sanderjd »

graycat wrote: post #391
RandVal30142 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bluntly the newsies want violence, dead people The Nazis do. This is why they stabbed people in Seattle, this is why they called it a war, this is why one of them ran down civil demonstrators.

I don't know anything about US Nazis. But, maybe they exist -- I would not deny that they do. And, if they exist, then, sure stabbing people might be part of what they do. Stabbing people is illegal, and we are awash in law enforcement to deal with that. But the law they broke was stabbing people. Being a Nazi may not actually be illegal. So, we don't lock them up for being a Nazi. We don't say, "Nazis stab people so…

Have you watched video of the rally? It doesn't seem like you have. It is easy to find.
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