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In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

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Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#411
post #231

I must say that as someone who does NOT live in a crazy high-rent state or town, I am not well pleased by the idea of my federal tax dollars going to people who choose to live there but can't make ends meet, and this even though I'm generally pro-spending on social welfare. You may say, "but the poor can't afford to move!". Well, if that's the case, the government should subsidize their move instead. It would be way…

My federal income taxes (which treat me as though I am rich, because income taxes are not cost-of-living adjusted) buy:

- The diplomatic, covert, and military apparatus which dominates the world to the extent necessary to secure the flow of cheap oil for your car.

- The interstate highways you drive on.

- The stability of the mortgage-lending ecosystem (via bailouts), and FHA subsidies that privilege suburban single family homes over urban condos.

- Welfare so that unemployed people can stay in dead-end towns, instead of moving to where they are needed.

If these costs were instead embedded in the home prices and rents of the low-density regions they enable, those places wouldn't be cheap anymore.

I don't think we need to force everyone in to urban skyscrapers, but I do think the federal government ought to prop up urbanization at the expense of people in cheap areas at least as much as it props up sprawl at the expense of high COL city dwellers.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#412
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reliable evidence of people in the Bay Area being smarter or more capable on average than other major metropolitan areas. The average Bay Area resident may be slightly more educated but that doesn't necessarily prove anything about their level of heritable intelligence.

What would you consider reliable evidence? I'd say the Bay Area GDP and tax base alone would point that way.

Reliable evidence would be a large scale, double blind clinical study establishing statistically significant correlations between particular genes and high scores on multiple standardized intelligence tests, followed by a finding that those genes are significantly more common in the Bay Area than in other regions. Without something like that you can't legitimately make any claims about heritable intelligence. There are many alternative hypotheses which could potentially explain the GDP per capita differential.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#413
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all the smartest, most capable people should stop having kids. Considering intelligence is something like 85% hereditary, that will work out excellently!

There is no reliable evidence of people in the Bay Area being smarter or more capable on average than other major metropolitan areas. The average Bay Area resident may be slightly more educated but that doesn't necessarily prove anything about their level of heritable intelligence.

> There is no reliable evidence of people in the Bay Area being smarter or more capable on average than other major metropolitan areas.

There may not be conclusive evidence, but there is fairly suggestive evidence given known correlates of intelligence.

> The average Bay Area resident may be slightly more educated but that doesn't necessarily prove anything about their level of heritable intelligence.

It doesn't necessarily prove that, but both access to and success in higher education is gated by selective filters for, among other factors, intelligence, so a region with higher average level of education would, itself, suggest (though not necessarily prove) higher average intelligence.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#414
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you consider reliable evidence? I'd say the Bay Area GDP and tax base alone would point that way.

Reliable evidence would be a large scale, double blind clinical study establishing statistically significant correlations between particular genes and high scores on multiple standardized intelligence tests, followed by a finding that those genes are significantly more common in the Bay Area than in other regions. Without something like that you can't legitimately make any claims about heritable intelligence. There a…

Sure, you're correct. But you'll have to excuse me if I don't wait decades for data like this to build a worldview.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#415
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area. It amazes me how many people in tech can't do simple math. Hint: The Detroit area job market is on fire, but you will pass it over if your idea of compensation doesn't take into account cost of living. I'm sure there are several other cities that can say the same.

I don't know if I would call the Detroit market hot, it took me about 3-4 months to find a new job. However, I'm not a software developer, so rhat could also have something to do with it.

> However, I'm not a software developer, so rhat could also have something to do with it

Definitely has something to do with it. I'm a software engineer in the Detroit area and the last time I switched jobs (4ish years ago), it took less than 2 weeks from the time I updated and posted my resume to signing an offer letter. With the number of calls and emails I get daily for different positions in the area, I have a feeling it would go just as quickly the next time I decide to make a move.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#416
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staff engineer at Google, most likely, but possibly Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft. In any case, somebody who thinks this represents a significant slice of the Silicon Valley workforce is living in a bubble. For every engineer making >$500k, there are many thousands making <$200k, at the thousands of other tech companies in the Bay Area that aren't Google/Amazon/Facebook/Apple. While the $500k engineer has every incenti…

I have seen offers or been given exact numbers from 3 of the 4 companies in your list at the "staff engineer" level or equivalent ("principal" at both amazon and microsoft), and they are nowhere near $500k/year. I have heard that at FB and Google, a very small percentage of engineers got special stock awards a couple years ago that could put them in that range. But most top performers at these places at the senior/st…

I wouldn't rule out $500k for Google. It's not a super reliable source, but Glassdoor lists the average total compensation for a Google staff engineer at $420k.

I doubt Apple, Amazon, or even Facebook pay that much on any regular basis, but I wouldn't rule out someone getting an outsized offer during a machine learning (or other flavor of the month) hiring frenzy.

[1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Staff-Software-Engin...

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#417

Wow, this resonates with me. In 2013 my wife and I were living in the Bay Area and had just welcomed our third child into the family. I was making 105k/yr at Apple (which seemed like a ton at the time!) but I felt like I was saving very little of that. I was approached on LinkedIn to take a job with matching pay but that was fully remote. I could live anywhere I wanted in the entire country. I jumped at the chance an…

I'm a Texan looking to move out of state because I'm transgender and our legislature wants to make it impossible for people like me to exist. Since that's the only reason I'm wanting to move, I'm looking for the most Texas-like place I can find. Unfortunately, the closest I can come is Southern California. I dragged my heels like crazy on admitting that SoCal was the only place that has most of what I wanted because…

Have you looked at Tucson? Similar to Austin, it's a liberal artsy city surrounded by reds, and yes the AZ legislature has done some AWFUL things, but Tucsonans are passionate about protecting people and it's one of my favorite places on Earth. Grew up there and since I left, the diversity has been growing since Tucson takes in a ton of refugees from all over the world. It's a sweet little bubble, beers are $1.50, food is amazing, and the people are sweet. Nothing like sitting outside at 11pm in sandals, shorts, and a tank top.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#418
post #231

I must say that as someone who does NOT live in a crazy high-rent state or town, I am not well pleased by the idea of my federal tax dollars going to people who choose to live there but can't make ends meet, and this even though I'm generally pro-spending on social welfare. You may say, "but the poor can't afford to move!". Well, if that's the case, the government should subsidize their move instead. It would be way…

My federal income taxes (which treat me as though I am rich, because income taxes are not cost-of-living adjusted) buy: - The diplomatic, covert, and military apparatus which dominates the world to the extent necessary to secure the flow of cheap oil for your car. - The interstate highways you drive on. - The stability of the mortgage-lending ecosystem (via bailouts), and FHA subsidies that privilege suburban single…

> income taxes are not cost-of-living adjusted

Well, this is another issue. It's incoherent, honestly, that someone can be considered both rich and poor from the federal perspective. But in the end, a COL adjustment on income tax would be equivalent to the type of subsidy in question.

- The diplomatic, covert, and military apparatus which dominates the world to the extent necessary to secure the flow of cheap oil for your car.

lel. If that was ever true, which I doubt, it isn't any more. If there was ever a point that our military paid for itself (even on the margin) in terms of cheaper oil, I'll eat my hat.

> Welfare so that unemployed people can stay in dead-end towns, instead of moving to where they are needed.

This is really the core of it. If people are really needed, economically and relatively to elsewhere, in supercities, then supercities will pay enough for them to live there. Ergo, you are overstating how much they are needed. This is exactly analogous to employers claiming there is a "shortage" of programmers, but they aren't willing to raise wages.

Besides, am I to believe that there are no unemployed people on welfare in cities? I don't know what the relative rate is. I do agree people should be incentivized to move where they are needed. We may have different views on where that is, exactly. Any kind of welfare distorts economic "need" signals, which is a big downside of it.

Imagining welfare or wealth transfers didn't exist, I'd say that the place where people are most "needed" is a place where benefits of living - COL is highest. I have no data on where that might be, but I doubt SV ranks high on the list unless you are a programmer. By that metric I would imagine that there would be a dynamic equilibrium between urbanization and countryside, as there is now.

In some ways, SV programmers defending subsidies for service workers in SV sounds like "please subsidize my $10 latte and Whole Foods bill".

> the low-density regions they enable

This is pretty creative. If cities had to grow their own food and extract their own natural resources, I think they'd have quite a problem, yes? It may be fair to say cities & countryside are codependent, but the idea that cities are one-sidedly enabling everyone else is not credible.

It is quite likely that there is a net transfer of wealth from cities to the countryside. The reason I would argue this is "fair" is because people in the cities are also the primary beneficiaries of GDP growth.

BTW, I don't live in the country, I live in a medium-sized city. I am limiting my criticisms to cities that have so poorly planned expansion, or are so crowded, that the COL is sky-high, and they want a bailout from everyone else.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why Londoners move to suburbia...

Time was Greater London was suburbia. Does that make Luton, St Albans etc. the 'suburbs' of London?

Suburbia started at Aldgate, which is just outside the city walls ;-)

A good rule of thumb is (or was): Does it have black cabs?

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#420
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you tell me that vaccines cause autism I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but have you researched this? My assumption is "no they don't" but it's actually an area I know very little about. Looking at the whole discussion currently happening around glyphosate / Roundup, where extensive lobbying has been done by Monsanto to block out any negative reports from the public domain, I (personally) think a lot of…

Not everyone needs to do scientific research and read peer-reviewed journal articles about every topic to come to a conclusion about it. Until such time as reputable scientists start saying there is more than a tangential relationship between vaccination and autism, it's a pretty untenable position to have. > Autism rates have gone up during the last 20+ years. Why is this? Autism rates increasing doesn't mean there'…

> but I've met a dozen or so diagnosed autistic children and more than a few of them are just assholes or have parents looking for an easy way to not discipline their children.

Yes and same with ADHD, gluten intolerance and other 'diseases' that have gone up in the past 20 years while your annoying, anti social, always crying and shouting, only likes sugar child is just the result of lazy parenting and a general lack of tolerance to suffering at large.

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