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Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

theatlantic.com

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Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#411

Post by dredmorbius »

Edmond wrote: post #395
dredmorbius wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that it's reputation , the prevalance of impunity with present systems, and the problem of introducing consequence for misbehaviour, which is the core. These can be changed without requiring full identification and disclosure. And there's a very long history of principled (and some unprincipled) pseudonymous discussion.

Co-Sign 100% ....in fact anonymous identities is part of the service we're offering: https://www.cipheredtrust.com/doc/#anonymized-identities It is the perfect balance between privacy and accountability.

There are wrong ways to offer anonymity:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/500ysb/the_imz...

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#412

Post by dang »

Para2016 wrote: post #128

You're helping prove his point. I would consider you a troll. You are aggressive, insulting, inflammatory, and you do it with regularity. I'm not sure why it has to be funny to you or anyone else.

That's a personal attack, and those are not allowed here. If you have concerns about other users breaking the site guidelines, flag their comments or email hn@ycombinator.com. Breaking the guidelines yourself just makes the site worse for everyone.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14007347 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#413

Post by excoder »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #273
eikenberry wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More phones should just come with whitelist support. Where calls will automatically go to voice mail if it isn't on your list. I have this on my phone due to lots of wrong numbers and it works great.

Details puhlease.

For iOS, I'm currently checking out Hiya Caller ID and Block by Hiya https://appsto.re/us/cXg16.i

I've had it installed for about an hour now and indeed have not received a single spam call. Experiment at your own discretion.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#414

Post by dredmorbius »

nradov wrote: post #172
pdelbarba wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: how would you reconcile privacy-centric communities like Reddit and definitely-not-privacy-centric communities like Facebook? They both have the same patterns of information bubbles generally feed content in similar ways (broadly speaking) and they both have strong troll subgroups. If anything, Facebook might have a lower overall incidence of trolling because you run the risk of having your profile p…

Does Facebook actually have less trolling? I don't know how anyone could quantify it but subjectively there seems to be a lot. It's easy to create fake accounts, and some people just don't care.

Enough so that the retiring US Attorney for Chicago specifically called it out for the city's murder problem.

https://archive.fo/203tP

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#417

Post by bobdole1234 »

noobermin wrote: post #173
pdeuchler wrote: post #137

The internet is as it always was, the only difference is more people, and more importantly more people without technological prowess and forum/bbs/irc experience, are accessing it and moving increasingly larger chunks of their life to the internet. As someone who fell in love with the internet when I was young because nobody knew I was young , it constantly surprises me when people put intimate details online and the…

The majority of people who say "don't feed the trolls" have never been the focus of a trolling campaign, I've found. It is easy to claim this when you aren't under constant violent harassment and scrutiny. It is not fair to expect everyone else to have a "battle-hardened" stoicism when you've probably never experienced such a life. I've never experienced such harassment myself and used to sing the "ignore" mantra too…

Most people aren't willing to do the actual act that takes away the meat for trolls: delete and start a new identity without association with the old one.

I changed my IRC identity dozens of times when assholes decided they wanted to make me miserable, the solution is to be the person who walks away without looking back.

We keep thinking the places we congregate and the identities we put out there are the important parts, when really the important parts are the relationships you migrate when someone makes the current location for discussion untenable.

Just pick a new name in a new place, and invite your friends.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#418

Post by bobdole1234 »

inopinatus wrote: post #235
milesrout wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. 'Trolling' is not harassment. You can harass someone by trolling them incessantly , but harassing people is not 'trolling' them. Don't use them as synonyms. 2. They've never been the focus of a harassment campaign because they're not stupid enough to put their personal details out there on the internet and then be surprised that people will use that to harass them. They also don't feed the trolls in the first plac…

> 2. They've never been the focus of a harassment campaign because they're not stupid enough to put their personal details out there on the internet and then be surprised that people will use that to harass them. They also don't feed the trolls in the first place. This is a) simple victim blaming and b) impossible to fix in some situations. Illustration of (b) is that the companies of which I'm a director are a matte…

If you get harassed by an asshole at the bar every time you go, you pick a new bar.

It takes 5 seconds to make a new account and send the info to the few people you want to bring along.

By the time the troll figures out who you are again, they've usually stopped caring.

Repeat as required.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#419

Post by stcredzero »

fao_ wrote: post #385
stcredzero wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating "Freedom of speech" with "The right to be listened to" and "The right to have a platform". Those concepts are inherently fuzzy and related in messy ways. Back in the day, AT&T claimed that it had built its long-distance network, and that it was in its rights to exclude others from using it. The effect of this was monopoly, however, so regulators stepped in and new laws were passed. If "de-platformin…

"Those concepts are inherently fuzzy and related in messy ways." No, they're really not. The one has a strict legal definition and is enshrined in law, and the others don't and aren't. "But in actuality, de-platforming as practiced on college campuses often results in a group of people too intimidated to talk and too intimidated to attend, contrary to their desires. " And what about the people who have felt intimidat…

No, they're really not. The one has a strict legal definition and is enshrined in law, and the others don't and aren't.

Sorry, but it is a historical fact that "strict legal definitions" are fuzzy, and the definition of a "right" changes with technology and cultural changes. If such changes didn't happen, then wiretapping wouldn't be illegal and it would still be illegal to overfly someone's farm in an airplane. Hate speech existing as a legal term is evidence against what you say.

And what about the people who have felt intimidated by the hate speech and haven't attended because of that?

Can you point to specific instances of this happening?

A church can expell a person for preaching atheistic views, and nobody gets annoyed. But as soon as someone does it for a white supremacist, a nazi, andor a person preaching for the extermination of certain groups, it's suddenly "against their free speech".

This is breathtaking intellectual dishonesty here. Preaching for the extermination of certain groups is hate speech. Are you saying that all de-platforming is only targeted at hate speech? In that case, you are simply lying. If not, then this is the dishonest tactic of trying associating your opponent with a villainous group.

If de-platforming were only focused against hate speech, there would be no debate, as hate speech is not protected speech. De-platforming, as practiced, is used to silence anything certain people don't like. As practiced, it's a form of group intimidation that uses the same mechanism of effect as hate speech. Hate speech only became a legal term recently. De-platforming on college campuses should also become something legally prohibited.

[An orthogonal point here is that people like yourself often argue that these people should not be able to write protests to the publisher (twitter). As per your own definition, wouldn't that count as infringement of their free speech? It's interesting how you readily support that views should not be removed, but condone that people should not be allowed to protest against views, or that people should not be allowed to write their point of views in emails and posts about twitter. Surely the right to advocate what you call 'censorship', falls under what you call 'free speech'?]

You do realize that you made a false assumption about my views here for weak probabalistic reasons, then proceeded to ascribe them to me? As a test: which logical fallacy is this? I've often seen this tactic online. There's even the same (il)logical structure, down to count and ordering of sentences. It's almost like it's deliberately taught to people!

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#420

Post by houst0n_ »

generic_user wrote: post #320
houst0n_ wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that depends on your sources. TheIntercept doesn't fit into that bracket to me. Bias? Maybe, but bias isn't a problem if you read a diverse set of sources. Bias isn't a problem, opinion isn't a problem; reading one source and complaining its 'fake news' because it's bias isn't the same as yours is.

I agree that there is still a spectrum of quality. And certain Journalists and publications can still establish a reputation for reliability and quality. But the problem is the business model. No one has been able to come up with a solution to make money on quality. Its all volume advertising. NYT is competing with BuzzFeed for eyeballs. Its a competition to come up with the most clever hook and target peoples emotio…

I'm not so sure print is dead yet :)

I read the FT weekend, private eye, and sometimes monocle as my fill of physical periodicals but I think throwing all journalism into the same box as your avg daily mail/buzz feed AP copy/paster isn't really accurate. These aren't journalists they are 'content curators' or whatever the term is these days.

I'll use some of those sites to see what's happening quickly -- the bullshit around a story isn't too important when I'm just looking for headlines. things like 'terrorist attack in paris' are statements everywhere which is about all can expect from such places; more in depth stuff I go longform and sometime even podcasts or books written later.

Instead of raging war on stuff that's been going on for years in the press why don't we just balance out input ourselves instead of playing into this drive to delegitimise the press, which only seems to benefit the government. We need a press to hold things accountable since the judiciary and senate have already been steamrolled.

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