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Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

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Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#411

Post by viuduib »

sumedh wrote: post #382
viuduib wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeh, because creating a startup is a breeze isn't it ? And most anyone could simply drop every commitment in their lives and like 4 years later they're rich! Why doesn't everyone do that, given they're free to do it ? Well, because they're not free to, not at all. 90% of people are strapped into financial obligations and have families. None of these people can afford to risk starting a business, even if they would…

> 90% of people are strapped into financial obligations and have families. So they have to prioritise what is important, if they feel that starting a business is more important, they will avoid getting financial obligations and starting a family. This is also part of the overall risks, you might be better off just being an employee with a normal life instead of being a failed entrepreneur.

wait, didn't you time-travel in your argument ? You said if you feel like starting a business, go back in time and not have a family or take-on debt - may as well say they should have been born into a rich family with a good education, contacts and an inheritance to gamble with

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#412

Post by gambiting »

viuduib wrote: post #408
gambiting wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolute nonsense. People start companies in extremely difficult positions in life and only some of them succeed. No one said it's easy. But that doesn't change the fact that every single one of Amazon employees is free to leave the company and start their own tomorrow. You don't have to have complete financial security to be "free" to do something.

you are living in a dream world

No, I just don't assume that you need to have a million dollars in your bank account to start a business. There's way too many people on HN who think that to run a startup you need investment money, offices, dozen employees, marketing campaigns etc etc.

You don't. You can start small, out of your own bedroom if you have to, and then grow from there. There's plenty of stupid advice like "if you're not making million dollars within 3 years of starting then there's no point" but it's just not true.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#413

Post by krapp »

mdpopescu wrote: post #410
dougmany wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times more effective? As the difference between what humans can do and what computers can do increases, we become relatively closer.

Two people move their finger forward one centimeter. One of them made a hole in the ground; he's going to put a seed in it, which will hopefully grow into something useful. The other one pushed a button which started an automatic lathe which created an engine piston worth a hundred thousand dollars. The difference in the productivity of two people is practically limitless.

But the second person isn't being productive. The lathe is being productive. In Amazon's case, the person actually pushing the button on the lathe can barely make rent.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#414

Post by [deleted] »

sumedh wrote: post #381
dredmorbius wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're begging the question (and yes, that's proper use): why should all the rewards go to those who've taken some risk? What of the risks taken by others? Are there uncompensated risk-bearing activities? Are there activities with low risk but high return? Suppose, say, dropping a drill bit next to the guy who's just blown in a gusher? Or securing control of the pipelines, railroads, and refineries by which that oil…

> What of the risks taken by others? What risks do employees take, they are getting a salary. If they are not happy they can leave and get another job. The founder has to put everything in it, his money, time, relationships, reputation. This is not "some risk", he cannot just walk away.

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#415

Post by sumedh »

pnut wrote: post #409
sumedh wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What of the risks taken by others? What risks do employees take, they are getting a salary. If they are not happy they can leave and get another job. The founder has to put everything in it, his money, time, relationships, reputation. This is not "some risk", he cannot just walk away.

What prevents a founder from walking away and getting a job exactly? I did it, so I know it can be done. Founders reap rewards of their risk-taking almost immediately, and it accelerates exponentially from there. This really cuts to a major point of contention in modern politics - exaggerated pity party for the hardships of the most powerful people in society. It is a privilege to take such risks, and if you are in d…

> What prevents a founder from walking away and getting a job exactly?

He/she can do that but the sacrifices are greater compared to just being an employee.

> go get a soul-crushing treadmill job and watch the fruits of your labour flow elsewhere

I am from India, I have seen abject poverty. I know it's a privilege to take such risks, my original point was focussed more on HN demographics not the poor people who I know cannot take such risks. Poor people who cannot take such risks is a totally different conversation

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#416

Post by sumedh »

andrepd wrote: post #405
sumedh wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe in your idea get a loan from family, friends or banks or get a high paying job save money and then start your business. Starting and running a successful business is not easy which is why the rewards should go to the risk taker.

> If you believe in your idea get a loan from family, friends or banks or get a high paying job save money and then start your business. I don't understand if this is supposed to be a joke or you are really that sheltered and clueless. Just get a loan from your family and get started? You are aware that for the vast, vast, vast majority of people this is not an option that's available to them, right? Get a high payin…

You are comparing apples to oranges, my comment was for people who visit HN not for poor people in US or elsewhere. I agree poor people cannot afford to take such risks.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#417

Post by sumedh »

andrepd wrote: post #406
sumedh wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 90% of people are strapped into financial obligations and have families. So they have to prioritise what is important, if they feel that starting a business is more important, they will avoid getting financial obligations and starting a family. This is also part of the overall risks, you might be better off just being an employee with a normal life instead of being a failed entrepreneur.

They don't have to choose to prioritise, they don't have a choice ! Which brings your entire argument down.

If you are going to count poor people then I agree most of them dont have a choice, I am talking about people who visit HN.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#418

Post by titraprutr »

andrepd wrote: post #215
pfisch wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He provided more economic/productive value to the world than 100,000,000s of people. Idk about "working hard" or "merit" because who cares if someone has to work super hard for 2 days to produce the same results another person can produce in 10 minutes.

Nope, Bezos didn't create more value than 100,000,000s of people. How could he? He started it, sure, he owns it and he directs it, but Amazon employs 341,000 people. Those are the people who generate the bulk of the value produced by the Amazon company, yet they share in very little of the value they produced. Would you say a CEO is responsible for all the value the company makes? Would you say it's fair for a feudal…

Yes, he did. This value doesn't come from all the "monkey" jobs that most of his employees do. It comes from the ability to produce ideas and making them happen by managing that 341,000 people. You completely underestimate the value of directing a company like Amazon.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#419

Post by celticninja »

rsync wrote: post #267
appleflaxen wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. the solution should be to just to tax Wilt Chamberlain at a rate high enough that the astronomical net worths become merely "stratospheric".

"Interesting. the solution should be to just to tax Wilt Chamberlain at a rate high enough that the astronomical net worths become merely "stratospheric"." The solution to what ? Could you describe the problem in the (above) Wilt Chamberlain example ?

unequal distribution of wealth is the underlying issue, so essentially they are suggesting a progressive tax system whereby higher earners are taxed at a higher rate. Which allows the government to redistribute that wealth towards poorer areas of society whilst not impacting significantly on the living standards of the higher earner.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#420

Post by sumedh »

viuduib wrote: post #411
sumedh wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 90% of people are strapped into financial obligations and have families. So they have to prioritise what is important, if they feel that starting a business is more important, they will avoid getting financial obligations and starting a family. This is also part of the overall risks, you might be better off just being an employee with a normal life instead of being a failed entrepreneur.

wait, didn't you time-travel in your argument ? You said if you feel like starting a business, go back in time and not have a family or take-on debt - may as well say they should have been born into a rich family with a good education, contacts and an inheritance to gamble with

If you are young and your inner voice is telling to work on your idea then it's better not to take debt like a house loan or an expensive car loan. Similarly tell your partner to wait for marriage/kids.

Of Course a rich kid won't have to do these sacrifices but the rich kid will probably not have the same intensity and drive as the middle class person who wants to succeed.

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