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Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

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Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#411

Post by kethinov »

sneak wrote: post #368
shmerl wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly not nobody. Secondly, how can you grow it if instead of moving it forward, they roll it back? That's the opposite of progress. > Ultimately most users just don't care about federation. Them's the facts. Not really. Everyone is annoyed by this issue. But there isn't much they can do. People need to register on N different services and use N different clients to communicate with users of those networks when the…

People care about convenience, not federation. Google Talk and Facebook Messenger both supported it for multiple years and the number of people who used it rounds to zero. This is where we ended up. There was time for it, just no demand.

Launch a terrific, convenient new email service that doesn't federate and watch how quickly users will choose federation over convenience.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#412

Post by [deleted] »

cptskippy wrote: post #300
remir wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are allowed down time. If people don't respect/understand that, it's their problem, no yours. I don't answer the phone when I eat or after 10pm. Same thing with text messages/emails. "Do not disturb" mode is there for a reason.

"Do not disturb" is there because people do not respect each other anymore.

[deleted]

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#413

Post by scrollaway »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #381
scrollaway wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using their own protocol. By freedom, I meant ability to iterate fast, break compatibility, not have to support unwanted clients etc. It's something you care about less once you're big, but it matters a lot when you're starting.

Presumably though even if you're iterating hard and breaking stuff, once you're out of alpha you're not going to introduce many backwards-compatibility-breaking protocol changes? I can see doing that for v0.1 to v0.2 and maybe from v1.9.x to v2.0 but nothing about making those changes seems incompatible with sharing the details of final protocols used in your production level clients.

Take a very real example: Discord is working on video chat right now. As part of that work, it's not unthinkable they'd need to severely rework the voice/text protocols because they want to bring all of them in line with one another, reduce their tech debt or what have you.

If it's an open standard, they need to check in with everyone, document the move, potentially have to explain it or depending on popularity won't even be able to justify doing it. And suddenly, you see they're losing their competitive advantage for the sake of pleasing a few people on HN.

If it's a closed standard, they do whatever they want, don't have to justify or explain it to anybody. They can turn the protocol into fairy dust, run two versions of it for a while, and require a client upgrade if you want video chat.

Now, a few years down the line once Discord is established, has a solid business model and the protocol is clearly not changing anymore, then we can talk about making it open, allowing third party clients and we can really seriously start bugging them about it.

I very much want this to happen but Discord does need to be successful first. You'll get nowhere by bugging a startup to spend time on what could potentially kill the business.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#414

Post by scrollaway »

djsumdog wrote: post #318
MaxLeiter wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding IRC, how do you feel about ircv3 [1]? [1] http://ircv3.org

Are there any IRCv3 implementations? Is freenode planning on running it? I'd love a totally OSS alternative to Slack. Maybe we'll see it with the recent Gitter acquisition?

Mattermost is an existing OSS alternative to slack. It's terrible.

Gitter is more likely to be good but to be completely honest, it will take a lot of work to not be mediocre.

Freenode is part of the IRCv3 working group and I believe uses it internally somehow. IRCCloud is the largest IRCv3 implementation, they are fully IRCv3 compatible afaik.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#415

Post by yladiz »

jsz0 wrote: post #409
colordrops wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a big fan of legislating technical standards, but in this case I think I could support it. IM has become a fundamental communication mechanism. Imagine how held back society would be if we had 50 different voice standards rather than the singular phone system we have now. IM needs to be forcefully standardized.

> IM needs to be forcefully standardized. This is totally crazy to me. It would be like the government legislating when and where people have spoken conversations with each other.

No, it's not. What you're proposing would be like the government saying you can only use this specific service, which may be run by the government, to communicate with others. Standardizing IM is making is so that if you want to talk to your friend across the country you're able to using different applications but the same protocol. Forcefully standardized would be mandating any messaging app that's used in the country would have to follow the protocol. It's almost the same thing that happened to fax machines in the 70s and 80s before the Japanese government stepped in.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#419

Post by codezero »

j_s wrote: post #400
funwithjustin wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you properly configure DKIM and SPF? Then you won't have this problem.

From the fine article he linked: SPF, DKIM and DMARC are all domain verification systems for validating e-mail’s origin to prevent spam. I have all three records set in DNS records for all the domains I send e-mail from, verified they were correct using testing tools, and I still get flagged as spam.

Google uses a lot of signals. The article above is on http, I saw a drop in spam flagging when the web host on my email domain was https only.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#420

Post by thro1111111 »

colordrops wrote: post #146
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is the point we need legislation to require that IM services with above X users in the relevant jurisdiction must provide a full, open, protocol and enable interoperation via the published protocol? That's the only way I see the companies involved would move to enable cross-platform communications? Aside: >It's a wonder we can send e-mails between many servers. I have a shared account on a small ISP, Mic…

I'm not a big fan of legislating technical standards, but in this case I think I could support it. IM has become a fundamental communication mechanism. Imagine how held back society would be if we had 50 different voice standards rather than the singular phone system we have now. IM needs to be forcefully standardized.

It's not something needed. It's a plus, even if it influences society a lot, it's not something like food or healthcare, where if someone plays unfair people die. And it's not like net neutrality either, because you are not costrained by space (putting cables underground). People should be free to choose a service, and if the server want to stop providing the service or change the way it does ut, it should be free to do so. Anything else you can use contracts, or change provider, as long as there is net neutrality in place. And it's not something that messes with your health, so no justification for regulation aside from an arbitrary and unprovable "society being held back". Being unable to make something because of regulations, that's some real and provable holding back of innovation.
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