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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#411

I'm a lecturer/prof in Sweden and we have had this law for years. We own all our own IP. In other top tier Universities around the world the norm is that the university takes 20-50% of the IPR/equity. Needless to say that we are very happy with it (lärareundantag). However, a word of caution: it doesn't seem to make any difference when attracting top talent. My experience is that even in Systems Research, candidates…

As a systems researcher, this is definitely something I would consider. Do you know of other European countries with similar policies? In the UK the situation in most universities now is that the university owns everything. Previously Cambridge I believe gave a large share to the academic, but this was dispensed with/reduced in the face of considerable protest.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#412
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's minimum requirement for a hire contract in Norway. 3 months mutual notification, and only in a few cases can you be fired on spot without compensation (theft and such). You can contractually increase the notification time from the baseline, but not decrease. Makes for happy and productive workers, and also benefits companies who don't have to worry about loosing their best worker without notice.

3 months notice period seems a very bad deal to me. If you want to change job you simply cannot because no one would wait for 3 months, unless you are at executive level.

Yes, they would wait. Everybody else in the setting does.

And then there probably is a way to shorten the notice period when both sides agree (I extrapolate to Norway how in my country it works).

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"(I refuse to get an HMO for moral reasons)" Can you elaborate on this?

HMOs mandate that Primary Care Physicians act as gatekeepers, and their job is to control how and when you seek the services of other doctors. Medical gatekeeping is a violation of the fundamental human right to body autonomy.

This is false. It's insurance, they don't prevent you from seeing any provider you want, they just have set out certain limitations on what they will cover. All insurance has limitations, an HMO is just on a spectrum of coverage. A PPO plan won't cover every provider either.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#414
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's minimum requirement for a hire contract in Norway. 3 months mutual notification, and only in a few cases can you be fired on spot without compensation (theft and such). You can contractually increase the notification time from the baseline, but not decrease. Makes for happy and productive workers, and also benefits companies who don't have to worry about loosing their best worker without notice.

3 months notice period seems a very bad deal to me. If you want to change job you simply cannot because no one would wait for 3 months, unless you are at executive level.

If everyone is the same situation then that delay becomes just a normal aspect of the hiring process. I'd be more concerned about the types of abuses that the delay could allow in countries with a less mature employment culture: backing off at the last minute and wasting 3 months of that company's time, bullying a leaver for all of 3 months to discourage other people, etc.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

>I've been trying for a long time to alter the common perception that Realtors add value; they don't. I don't know anything about the law so I hire a lawyer I trust. I don't know anything about buying a house so I hire a realtor I trust.

Most lawyers, however, are acting in your best interest. Most realtors are out to make a quick sale (at whatever price, they don't care as long as they get their commission)

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Because I am the buyer I had to pay her nothing... the seller pays..." This is literally the second most breathtakingly naive comment I've ever read on the internet.

As I pointed out in a seperate comment... If I am willing to pay Y for an item, regardless of who is involved in the transaction then it doesn't matter if a percentage is taken. i.e. if Y = Y x 0.97 + Y x 0.03, who cares? Now you might say I could have negotiated that 3% off, and I'd argue that's probably not true. I seriously lowballed the builder on the sale, the only reason I think I got it was the relationship th…

> builder was happy because he was in serious need of cash flow.

You can't imagine a world where that was more important to him accepting your offer than the realtor bringing the offer to him?

> The realtor was similarly happy because I only took around a day of her time

So, for a single day you paid maybe 6-15k or so (guessing 200-500k house * 3%). Don't you think maybe that's a bit much?

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read is blog post I think it's pretty clear he thinks its fair to own all employee's side projects.

My takeaway from the post was it isn't so much that he thinks it's fair but a legal necessity to protect the company. More of a criticism towards how current IP law is structured.

> he thinks it's [...] a legal necessity to protect the company

Exactly, which is why his post is totally self-serving propaganda.

Though he tries to present the post as "here's a totally objective explanation of how side projects interplay with employment law", ultimately his point comes down to Business owners have all these complicated issues to deal with, so just accept the fact that they're going to screw you over, while they make millions of dollars

There's no credibility given to the fact that companies have choices here and there are other options that don't screw over the employees - those options are too hard, and they might introduce legal risk to the company, or (!gasp!) scare away investors.

It's just accepted as given that business owners must do whatever it takes to protect their company's interests and employees should shut up and deal with it. Employees carry the legal and financial risk because it would be inconvenient for the company to do so.

The company is simply acting in its own self-interest and it's not actually trying to screw you (probably), that's just an irrelevant side-effect that they might take advantage of in the future when they do want to screw you. Now that know that you understand that, you're totally cool with it right? It's just business.

I don't think Joel is intentionally trying to be manipulative. I think he honestly believes all of that. As a business owner he's dealing with all those issues and he thinks he's making appropriate choices and has no particular intention to screw over his employees. The purpose of the post is so that everyone can see that he, and business owners like him, are not a bad guys - they're just acting rationally and you only thought you were getting a bad deal because you didn't understand the choices they're making.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#418

I work at a large law firm that represents a lot of software companies. Our standard employee agreement forms have the usual default (company owns everything you create with its resources or that relates to the scope of your employment). This default has always amused me because lawyers never sign these kinds of agreements with their own law firms . We spend most of our time writing contracts, memos, and other bits o…

The result is that contract forms have become a sort of IP-free zone. Exactly. One of the sleaziest tricks used by Realtors (most Realtors are not lawyers) is getting clients to sign their forms: their terms usually have the word "percent" hard-coded into the contract. Rather than opening the door to hourly or fixed dollar amounts, they insist that their forms are the "standard". I heard one recently say in a public…

Four letters: FSBO

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#419

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

"Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I want to employ someone who uses their creative energy for anything except the company's business." Wow. That statement alone tells you everything you need to know about that person and what kind of manager they are. The fact that it was the founder is just...wow. Since it was the founder, if I was in your shoes I would have asked this fool if they took that same approach when…

[deleted]

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#420

Once upon a time, I was looking for a job, in straightened circumstances. I found a so-so match, and since I was in danger of missing a mortgage payment, I decided to accept their offer. Pragmatism and all that. Well, I went in and picked up the documents, and told them I needed to read them before signing and returning them to the company. I looked at the IP clause, and it said the company owned anything and everyth…

Fake news.
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