Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#411

Post by dxhdr » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:15 PM UTC

dhruvrrp wrote: post #233

dxhdr wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The discussion about H1Bs is getting dominated by SV SV dominates the H1Bs: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Category.asp...

But it doesn't. The problem is Indian outsourcing sweatshops. Why does everyone else have to suffer because of them? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcin...

> But it doesn't

I'm following your use of SV as a pejorative for the tech industry. The tech industry accounts for most H1Bs.

> Why does everyone else have to suffer because of them?

Perhaps there are alternate solutions than a price floor on foreign labor; Japan has a points-based system where you must meet extensive criteria to be considered a highly-skilled professional worthy of importing. I would agree that "must be paid $140k+" seems like a crude version of a vetting process.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#412

Post by robjan » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #163

robjan wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We outsourced most jobs to Bangalore and productivity dropped to around about 10% while costs increased. We have experienced death by committee and hierarchy in all of our outsourced projects so far and are now starting to solve this by in-housing everything again.

I didn't say "outsource", I said "open an office". There's a world of difference between having a team in a different office and outsourcing.

Our biggest problem wasn't the outsourcing, it was the number of candidates who had false references and qualifications from diploma mills. And the was just the start of the problems. People also seemed unable to work without installing a hierarchical leadership structure and cascading very specific instructions down that structure which were then misunderstood due to Chinese whispers. Every person I speak to, who works at a company who has tried to open up a development shop in India, seems to have war stories about this.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Post by sjg007 » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

davidf18 wrote: post #183

t1o5 wrote: post #29

ex H1B here. Yes Trump is right.(though I do not like him personally, he is right in this matter) Most of the corporate America is exploiting H1B workers. I have worked in one of those firms and I have friends in many other firms. These are not Indian body shops, these are American companies. Everyone's topic of discussion when we hangout is how our H1B visas were being exploited and there is nothing we could do abou…

Of all of the political candidates, only Trump and Sanders spoke out against H1-B visa abuse used to depress wages. (Former) Presidential Candidate Senator Marco Rubio of Florida wanted to triple the number of H1-B visas to 250,000 from 85,000 and accepted $2 million donation from Disney. Disney of Florida had recently replaced 250 US IT workers with foreigners on H1-B. Trump especially spoke out against this move. C…

I agree wages are depressed but how do you know Meg Whitman's true motivation?

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Post by powertower » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:30 PM UTC

kemiller wrote: post #318

IgorPartola wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Trump fan at all here, but technically I think it's more the other way around. Trump is buying up Goldman, rather than they buying him. I have yet to see a clear line of influence from Goldman to Trump personally. It seems more like he's hiring old buddies for potential future favors from them. Reverse lobbying! You heard it here first!

How is giving Goldman people government positions buying them if not by giving them the power to set rules as they like? It's not like they are in it for the cushy gov't benefits.

These corporations are huge, with many many employees (over 30 thousand just at Goldman Sachs).

Just because you used to work for Goldman in the past, does not mean you are a current and future supporter of Goldman.

Nor does it mean that you are a bad person.

Trump is hiring people that know how these companies work from the inside-out. Which is the exact type of person you need to be able to deal with these companies head-on.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#415

Post by mavelikara » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:31 PM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #389

davidf18 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all of the political candidates, only Trump and Sanders spoke out against H1-B visa abuse used to depress wages. (Former) Presidential Candidate Senator Marco Rubio of Florida wanted to triple the number of H1-B visas to 250,000 from 85,000 and accepted $2 million donation from Disney. Disney of Florida had recently replaced 250 US IT workers with foreigners on H1-B. Trump especially spoke out against this move. C…

Clinton proposed automatically giving H1Bs a green card, which would have removed them from indentured servitude. Your narrative ignores the actual policy.

> Clinton proposed automatically giving H1Bs a green card,

When? Her proposal, as reported in the media was, "'staple' green cards on STEM grads' diplomas". Was there other proposal she made specifically addressing H-1Bs?

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Post by mywittyname » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:31 PM UTC

rhapsodic wrote: post #75

The hubris and self-righteousness of SV billionaire bully-boys has reached the point where I'll favor practically anything that takes them down a peg. I'd love to see the Republican controlled federal government treat them the way the Democrats have treated, for example, the gun and coal industries. If a gun manufacturer should be held liable for the results of people misusing a gun, then why shouldn't Airbnb be held…

> the gun

Massively increase their market size and profits? It's hard to argue that Obama was the best thing to happen to the gun industry in decades. Fire arm production in the US had DOUBLED since Obama took office.

Stock for Ruger has gone up 4-fold since Obama took office. SWHC was up 50% over its pre-Obama peak, but it dropped after Trump won the election.

> and coal industries

Competition killed the coal industry, so if you want to point a finger, you can blame the oil & natural gas companies that developed and utilized fracking techniques along with the solar and wind-turbine industries that have developed products that can produce electricity much cheaper than coal ever could.

Obama was just trying to get a few good blows in before The Market lands the TKO. He gets to take credit for defeating the coal industry, which looks good on his environmental record. But the writing was already on the wall for the industry.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Post by dleslie » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:35 PM UTC

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #252

t1o5 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you satisfy the points under this grid - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp and your documentations are correct, 6 months is the SLA.

For anyone considering this who has an American criminal record, even a misdemeanor (!), understand that it is extraordinarily easy to become permanently barred from Canada if you don't perform the immigration steps correctly. There is an official bribe of up to $1,000 that must be paid before you can even be considered, and unless you are exactly truthful to a fault the Canadians can find cause to permanently and ir…

> I'm guessing there was a flood of cons to Canada at some point that made them skittish and enshrine a bunch of hoops in legislation.

Not really; it's more of an outcome of political balance. Our conservatives have historically been ornery about immigration, but our progressives made it a focus of their policy. (This is very untrue now, few outright oppose immigration, but historically shaped the dialogue). To accommodate the disagreement we somehow came to a skills-oriented system with a high-threshold for ability and other qualities.

We have/had our own problem with authoritarians, and it's shaped our policies in some particularly Canadian ways.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:36 PM UTC

powertower wrote: post #414

kemiller wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is giving Goldman people government positions buying them if not by giving them the power to set rules as they like? It's not like they are in it for the cushy gov't benefits.

These corporations are huge, with many many employees (over 30 thousand just at Goldman Sachs). Just because you used to work for Goldman in the past, does not mean you are a current and future supporter of Goldman. Nor does it mean that you are a bad person. Trump is hiring people that know how these companies work from the inside-out. Which is the exact type of person you need to be able to deal with these companie…

That has to be a self-delusion of the highest magnitude ever recorded. "Sure he's let the fox run the henhouse; but who knows better than a fox?"

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#419

Post by vondur » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:40 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #380

davidf18 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between selling out Americans to be replaced by foreigners whether H1-B as in Disney, Silicon Valley, and Wall Street or illegal immigrants replacing working class American jobs and depressing working class jobs and what Trump is doing now with Wall Street. If Trump were truly bought off by Goldman, he certainly would not be behind legislation that fixes the broken H1-B Visa system. Goldman,…

It's possible that he's trying to stick it to Silicon Valley as payback. Technology salaries are probably a drop in the bucket cost-wise compared to the profits that will be made from deregulation of the industry. So while Goldman might have to pay a few million more in salaries, it's offset by the billions more in profits that they will rake in (over the short-term, until they destroy the economy again, that is). Te…

I don't think so (sticking it to SV). He was threatening to reform the H-1B visa program during his campaign.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Post by nostrademons » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 10:47 PM UTC

solutionyogi wrote: post #390

nostrademons wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, true, and I'm not exactly happy about that...but that cartel was eventually broken when Facebook refused to play ball.

The point is that Google purposefully tried to keep the wages low. If not for FB, they would have never changed the practice. I have zero trust in Google for doing the right thing regarding salaries.

You don't have to trust in Google, only in self-interest. The reason FB broke the cartel is because they felt they could pick up some talented people by paying more. The reason Google normalizes salaries is because it negatively affects morale (and hence productivity & retention) when you have people paid dramatically different amounts for equal work. The reason big tech companies sponsor green cards is so they don't have to use up their H1B quota on you, and can instead get new H1Bs. They may not be doing it for your benefit, but that doesn't mean that you don't benefit from it.