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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#411

Post by user5994461 »

devilsbabe wrote: post #174
EnglishInFrance wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me know if you find reliable numbers. The French culture on this is very different, people simply don't talk about money and salary. I found a starting salary survey in a business magazine that indicated graduates of the top 5 engineering schools are getting about 40-55K/year

I just graduated from Ecole Centrale Paris, usually second on engineering school rankings after Ecole Polytechnique. I found a job in web development in a small startup in November and am making ~45k a year.

40-45 for master's degree from a very few select schools, like the one from the OP. (Think of it as an equivalent of MIT/standford/harvard. Only a few hundreds lucky people get out of there every year).

35-40k for master's degree from everywhere else.

If you don't have a master's just forget about it ^^

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#412

Post by lend000 »

renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

France's pension system (for public employees in particular) is in deep trouble, as our many of its other 'free lunch' policies. Its debt is looking similar to Greece shortly before '09. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/france/government-debt-to-gd...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#413

Post by EnglishInFrance »

bsaul wrote: post #60
hartator wrote: post #51

Don't go there. The limit of freedom of speech is real and can block you. Even when you run a startup that has nothing to do with local politics or anything controversial. Plus, we are still in "state of emergency", that gives the state more rights than the patriot act. Go to the US, Canada or New Zealand.

Freedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?

See: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/11/frenchman-given-s...

"Man names Wi-Fi network “Daesh 21,” prosecuted under French anti-terror law. New law forbids “public praise” of terrorism, punishable by up to 7 years in prison."

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#414

Post by Shebanator »

jeandejean wrote: post #378
eloisant wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually things have been changing in the recent years. We're seeing bigger investment, so startups can afford bigger salaries. Also multinational companies (like Google, Facebook) are opening engineering and R&D offices in France, driving up the salaries. Anyway, most of the tech jobs in France are in the IT service industry, but if you want an attractive salary you need to go to join a software company with a produ…

By the way, Google and Facebook jobs numbers in France are just anecdotal…

anecdotal? Not sure you used the right word there...

FWIW, I work for google and have access to the numbers. Although I can't give specifics, I will say that although Dublin, London, and Zurich are all larger sites within Europe, the Paris office has a non-trivial number of engineers, and some cool projects going on.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#415

Post by dv_dt »

renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

TBH, I don't really consider money I allocate for health insurance in the US as "take home". I wonder how the pension contributions work for expats?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#416

Post by vostok »

biztos wrote: post #395
rubber_duck wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

I don't live in France but I do feel qualified to comment on the general comparison, being a US software guy in Europe. First, things like health care and free university are a huge deal if you plan to stay past your 30's. Consider being able to take a couple years to try a business without freaking out about health insurance. Consider being able to go get a PhD in some interesting subject without having to get a ful…

> Sure all the "senior" programmers with 3 years' experience get paid a lot less than in the US, but I don't think the VP level does badly at all.

I think this is true from looking at my family. That's exactly what I don't like about European culture: the really senior people still make a lot of money. Americans are just better at sharing down the food chain.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#417

Post by user5994461 »

mamadrood wrote: post #168
throwaway1892 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say 46+ k€, before taxes, which are 33% corporate tax rate and ~30% on personal income. But I'm not sure how it applies to people with tech visa.

46k is really low in France for an experienced dev and that's outside of Paris. Junior dev engineer earn at least 45k when they begin in Paris, and it gets to 60k in about 5-10 years. Also corporate taxes are about 23% but you're right on personal income.

There's only a few guys out of a few Parisian schools, all at master's level, that have any chance to get 45k as a junior in Paris.

Looks one you're one of them if that's what you've got? ;)

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#418

Post by adventured »

wott wrote: post #388
adventured wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the same exact same free education logic applied to the US system: US universities are free. The money you don't pay in taxes covers the cost. What evidence would you hold up to suggest the French fraternal economy system is the one to mimic? As opposed to Sweden, Germany, or the UK, which have all produced superior results the last few decades with different approaches from that of France.

> As opposed to Sweden, Germany, or the UK, which have all produced superior results the last few decades with different approaches from that of France. What???

Sweden, Germany and the UK have approached economic growth far differently than what France has, and have produced superior results to that of France. The question was, why would the "French fraternal" system be worthy of being copied given its weak results?

See for example: Sweden's economic deregulation and lowering of taxes, which prompted their significant economic boom.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0803/international-invest-...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#419

Post by manarth »

xienze wrote: post #271
sylvinus wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have replied on the salary ranges, but don't forget to factor in free healthcare, excellent public schools, ...

It's. Not. Free. It's why the salary numbers are what they are.

  It's. Not. Free.
"Free at the point of delivery".

Do you pay to use the highway, or do you drive on the highway for free?

If you can use a service without handing over money for the use of that service, it's reasonable to call it "free".

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