Amazon Go • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Go

#411

Post by de_Selby » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

Like it or not, those jobs are on the way out.

Every supermarket around here has self service checkouts already, it's just a matter of time before something like this comes in.

I don't like it, for the reasons you outline. I think we'll lose something. I'm especially thinking of old people who might be living alone and see their shopping trip as an opportunity for social interaction. Unfortunately that's the way things are going though.

Re: Amazon Go

#412

Post by 8draco8 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #348

elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

Another thought I had was how it will handle multiple people filling the same "cart". Often I'm shopping with my girlfriend and, being the time-strapped millennials that we are, we'll split up the grocery list to divide and conquer and meet back up at the checkout aisle. How does this reconcile that? Would both of us have to scan in when we enter the store, or link our accounts in some fashion?

Exactly that. Or what if you go to shop with a child and he puts candy bar to the "cart"?

Re: Amazon Go

#413

Post by CaptSpify » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

ccostes wrote: post #272

wehadfun wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonddered the same thing. Also what if you dont want your purchases to end up in the cloud. Can you still pay with cash?

Considering there are no cashiers or checkout counters, cash seems like a no-go.

I'd be interested to see if they have manual-fallback in case "the system is down"

Re: Amazon Go

#414

Post by mememachine » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

This is neither useless nor bad. This is a convenience and there are literally no downsides to it. If you think the extra human interaction is worth it, do as you please, but i guarentee you are setting yourself apart from at least 80% of the general population.

I'll never understand the view that superior technologies mandate removal of the "old" ways of doing things. No one is forcing you to change, but dont be surprised when most people dont share the nostalgia you have.

Re: Amazon Go

#415

Post by stale2002 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

devy wrote: post #147

elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

If all merchandise in the Amazon Go store have been RFID tagged, this is a non-issue for checkout, as the turnstile tag scanner should be able to sense the items you take out of the store. As far as randomly put back at a different place of the items, the staff can use the tag scanner to detect that and fix it up even easier as oppose to physically locate the item by human vision which is arguably harder and less eff…

Ehh, there'd probably just be a "don't buy" bin that you out the items you don't want in.

Re: Amazon Go

#416

Post by agentgt » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

heliumcraft wrote: post #360

agentgt wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You say that like if it's a bad thing, you might want to better inform yourself on GMOs as there are A LOT of myths and misconceptions out there. And you might not want to assume what I know and don't :) I say it because GMOs are not open source. Local farms don't get access to GMOs and it can create an unfair advantage to big farms. As for health reasons I don't believe that GMOs are bad for you but they may have…

95% of seeds are patented, GMO or not, including those used in Organic Farming, the 'open source' / patents part is not something specific to GMOs (although the Organic industry works really hard to spread that myth). Organic farming can also use pesticides (and most do), some of these pesticides are as bad or even worse than the ones used in modern agriculture. And in regards to nutrients https://gmoanswers.com/stud…

I'm exceedingly open minded that GMOs are good but you might very well be closed minded that there are some negatives particularly since I linked to a scientific article (albeit slightly pop sci journal) and you gave me link to an organization whos goal it is to spread GMOs are good.

From the SA article:

“Efforts to breed new varieties of crops that provide greater yield, pest resistance and climate adaptability have allowed crops to grow bigger and more rapidly,” reported Davis, “but their ability to manufacture or uptake nutrients has not kept pace with their rapid growth.” There have likely been declines in other nutrients, too, he said, such as magnesium, zinc and vitamins B-6 and E, but they were not studied in 1950 and more research is needed to find out how much less we are getting of these key vitamins and minerals.

That doesn't mean GMOs are bad but it might mean people will abuse the fact they will grow easily on just about anything (I'm exaggerating for emphasis).

As for the unfair advantage it is in large part because of ignorance of the consumers. I admit it is a weak argument but sadly the local farmers often have to grow non-gmo because that is what sells and they will get lower crop yield if there are other nearby GMOs (bugs and cross pollination). It is not enough to be locally grown... you have to be GMO free. I met a farmer in Hawaii Kauai that shared this issue with me and the seemed fairly passionate about it.

Re: Amazon Go

#417

Post by digler999 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #220

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, that's an "incentive" that should be illegal. You should only get charged for something if you actually take it home or use it. Anything else is a cop out to push the costs of a deficient system onto the user/customer.

It's the store's fault when you selfishly and silently put perishable goods in non-refrigerated areas so they can spoil? IMO the store would have the right to charge you with destruction of property, if not the cost of the goods they're now out entirely due to your actions. The number of people that never learned "put stuff back where you got it" from their parents is astounding.

It sounds like the careless actions of the general public really bother you. Let me tell you something: grocery stores are low margin retailers who make their money by volume of sale, not enforcing conformity. The moment you open your doors to the public, you are going to get all kinds of mentally ill, aloof, high/drunk, distracted, disabled, elderly/senile, and (literally) retarded people in your store. It's futile to judge their actions using your idealist looking glasses.

The moment you start kicking people out over subjective "rule-violations", you are eating into your own profits, pissing off people, and projecting your own morality onto strangers. Aunt Minny may have set down that roast because it hurts her hip to walk across the store, and she realizes she already bought a roast yesterday. But over the last 10 years she's spent $25,000 shopping there. Some guy with Crohn's disease may literally shit on your floor if he doesn't drop his perishable item and run home/to the rest room. If both of those people are regular shoppers, sure the lost perishable item eats into your bottom line, but in the long run you are making a profit off them.

Waging an unnecessary morality war can only impede your ability to run a profitable business.

Edit: why not just give employees handheld IR thermometers, and if the temperature of the product is < $MEAT_MAX or $VEGGIE_MAX degrees then allow them to restock it.

Re: Amazon Go

#418

Post by kristofferR » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What you, as a customer, value doesn't really matter. The store owners don't introduce cashless checkout in order for the customers to save time, they do it so they can save money.

Human cashiers will probably exist in the future too, and if you value it you'll be able to pay extra for it.

Re: Amazon Go

#419

Post by cobookman » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:35 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #313

cobookman wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as crazy as it sounds. With RAIN Rfid you can get the xyz location of a tag from ~30ft away accurate to 6" in realtime. Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LykdRWTfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCA8L7v-R8

I don't think that helps in the use case presented here. What is really needed is a way to talk to multiple RFID tags quickly without any crosstalk. Think of a handbag with a dozen candy bars in it. How do you scan them all quickly without missing any? The goal has always been to scan something large in one pass, say a shrink-wrapped pallet of items that could number in the hundreds or thousands. Obviously this is te…

> How do you scan them all quickly without missing any?

Most RAIN Rfid readers have a read rate of 800+ tags/second. Door portals are a solved solution and now phased arrays are on the market which scan all items in realtime. Take a look at the impinj marketing material for more information. For example the RS2000 chip: http://www.impinj.com/products/reader-chips/indy-rs2000/

Re: Amazon Go

#420

Post by narrator » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:35 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

For me, this is useless because Instacart delivers everything I need with no markup, save tips, for $80/year. Perhaps this is wildly unprofitable for them, but for now it's far better than going to the store parking, shopping and driving back. I save many hours a week for hardly any money. If self driving cars get perfected, they won't even need drivers! Amazon Go might as well be a robot that automatically steers and buggy whips my horse drawn carriage.