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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#411

Post by Blackthorn »

ggamecrazy wrote: post #149
Quanticles wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these locations don't have any other companies in the area. Example: You're 22, straight out of college, you take a job at IBM in Poughkeepsie, NY because it was a great fit for you and you liked the area. You raise a family there, get friends there, establish a lot of roots over 10+ years. Now IBM is "transforming", what are you going to do? There are no other companies in the area

You can commute to NYC. It's a 1 hour ride on the Metro-North. It's not ideal but when times are hard you survive by any means necessary. It's also quite enjoyable. I get so much reading and personal time commuting on the train.

It's about an hour and 45 minutes to Grand Central, not an hour. I live near there and have taken both the Metro North and the Amtrak (from Rhinecliff) many times.

At least the trains have internet (or at least Amtrak does). If you can spin "they have wifi so they'll be part of my work day" into your job and work a virtually eight hour day including the commute as part of your time, that could be doable. If you have to commute on top of a normal eight hours, that's a non-starter.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#412

Post by gozur88 »

metaphorm wrote: post #409
gozur88 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own my house, the same way I would own a company. And I pay the lawn guy to do a job. I don't see the big difference.

its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you. a company is an organization of humans. a house is an object. You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company.

>its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you..

Oh, THANK YOU for the scraps of information you're about to impart.

>a company is an organization of humans.

No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. It may do nothing and have no full-time employees. It may own other companies who do nothing and have no full-time employees.

The "organization of humans" isn't the company. Those people are employees who work for the company. I know it's in fashion for CEOs to say "we are the company", but that's a polite fiction you tell people to motivate them. If you have any doubt this is true, watch what happens when the company doesn't need them any more.

>You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company.

While that's true from a legal perspective, it's a meaningless distinction. I'm paying the guy to do a job. If I stop paying him to do a job, it has an impact on his life. In leftist parlance that makes him a "stakeholder", by which they mean he ought to have some input into the decisions I make as the owner.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#413

Post by dragonwriter »

gozur88 wrote: post #412
metaphorm wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you. a company is an organization of humans. a house is an object. You purchase a service from the lawn care vendor. You are their customer. You are not the employer of the guy who mows the lawn. That guy is either self-employed or he might be the employee of a lawncare company.

>its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you.. Oh, THANK YOU for the scraps of information you're about to impart. >a company is an organization of humans. No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. It may do nothing and have no full-time employees. It may own other companies who do nothing an…

> > a company is an organization of humans.

> No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money.

A company is a generic term in English for any (particularly business) organization. It includes things that do not have distinct legal identity from the persons comprising the organization.

A corporation is specifically a particular form of company, distinguished by distinct legal personhood and other particular legal treatments.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#414

Post by dang »

01019109 wrote: post #380
dang wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird in theory but not in practice. Listen closely and you'll find that every every English speaker uses it without thinking.

English speakers also use "reach out to someone" for "contact someone", which sounds amazingly pompous for non-native speakers.

That's just an idiom. Every language has lots.

Though admittedly it's a corporate idiom that has passed its best-before date. Kind of like "folks".

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#415

Post by gozur88 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #413
gozur88 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>its really kind mind blowing to me that you don't see a difference but I'll spell it out for you.. Oh, THANK YOU for the scraps of information you're about to impart. >a company is an organization of humans. No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. It may do nothing and have no full-time employees. It may own other companies who do nothing an…

> > a company is an organization of humans. > No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. A company is a generic term in English for any (particularly business) organization. It includes things that do not have distinct legal identity from the persons comprising the organization. A corporation is specifically a particular form of company, disting…

Common usage for the word "company" isn't really relevant to this discussion.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#416

Post by dominotw »

theklub wrote: post #363
senthil_rajasek wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You turned this into an H1Bs thing a heartbeat... And this in a country built by and welcoming towards immigrants. Shouldn't we be discussing how to make the industry and the life of H1Bs better?

How about first improving the life of our citizens?

When exactly should people immigrate to US ?

Did you/your forefathers immigrate when all citizens had perfect life?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#417

Post by dllthomas »

gozur88 wrote: post #415
dragonwriter wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > a company is an organization of humans. > No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. A company is a generic term in English for any (particularly business) organization. It includes things that do not have distinct legal identity from the persons comprising the organization. A corporation is specifically a particular form of company, disting…

Common usage for the word "company" isn't really relevant to this discussion.

But "company" includes partnerships and sole proprietorships without any resort to common usage.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#418

Post by iofj »

mrow84 wrote: post #385
iofj wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing's for sure. Drops in sales aren't being attributed to Ms. Rometty. Massive, prolonged drops. Worse than for her predecessor. September 2012 IBM stock 205.5 September 2013 IBM stock 192.75 September 2014 IBM stock 190 September 2015 IBM stock 145 March 2015 IBM stock 140 If the CEO pay logic even remotely applied this woman would never be employed by anyone again. I'd rather hire a pyromaniac that did 100 mi…

I'm not sure if you meant to reply to my comment - yours sounds much more relevant to the topic at hand. As for the content of what you've said, if it's true, then it's quite terrifying! But it hardly seems unusual [0]. [0] http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/04/bp-chief-exe...

It was certainly meant to be a reply to "why would you attribute an increase to the leader" and meant mostly to amplify the point.

I haven't even said the worst of my analysis. If I make an NPV calculation assuming the 5-year average interest rates will be 1%, IBM is currently far overvalued, essentially 100%, mostly because of too much debt compared to assets. In a firesale, IBM wouldn't fetch half it's market cap.

You can tell by the short interest in IBM that I'm not the only one who thinks so.

In fact, that's the only real quality I would ascribe to Ms. Rometty : investors in IBM should be panicking, and they're not. Since she's the main point of contact between the board and the company, she probably should get some credit for that. But in a way it's the worst kind of compliment : she has been able to push something that's either a lie or mindless optimism on a lot of investors.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#419

Post by dragonwriter »

gozur88 wrote: post #415
dragonwriter wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > a company is an organization of humans. > No it isn't. A company (or corporation) is a legal fiction in which the owners are pooling resources to make money. A company is a generic term in English for any (particularly business) organization. It includes things that do not have distinct legal identity from the persons comprising the organization. A corporation is specifically a particular form of company, disting…

Common usage for the word "company" isn't really relevant to this discussion.

That's not just common usage, it's the technical difference between "company" and "corporation".

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#420

Post by eggy »

x5n1 wrote: post #377
senthil_rajasek wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You turned this into an H1Bs thing a heartbeat... And this in a country built by and welcoming towards immigrants. Shouldn't we be discussing how to make the industry and the life of H1Bs better?

Why? That does not make any sense whatsoever. Most corporations that use H1Bs have billions sitting in cash in their bank accounts. They are more than capable of paying for local workers. There is a glut of local workers looking for jobs that can do the work that are for the most part as smart as the immigrants. The work is highly profitable. The skills are present in the local population. Why should anyone want H1Bs…

What doesn't make sense is how can the corporations have billions sitting in cash per your logic. Just because they pay the H1Bs less doesn't mean that one time savings creates revenue. The H1Bs must be producing enough satisfactory work to tip the scales the corporation's way. I don't buy into your writing the current 'owners of America' are equivalent to those who 'Initially they exploited slaves'. Another view point: I am currently in Java, Indonesia, where a rice field laborer makes about $4 per day. Some leave to work in Hong Kong as domestic helpers making $20 per day and send money back home. Maybe the Hong Konger feels they are exploiting this person, but this person feels grateful to have the opportunity to earn 5x more. The downside is missing family and friends back home, and Hong Kong provides very little rights to these workers. The US is more generous in this aspect of worker's rights.
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