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Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

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Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#401

Post by foldr »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #389
foldr wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think jrochkind1 was appealing to any kind of universal principle, he was just pointing out that there are many ways of coercing people to have sex, and some of the violent ways of doing it aren't obviously worse than some of the non-violent ones. That certainly raises the question of whether we'd want to make a sharp legal distinction between violent and non-violent coercion in the specific case of rape. As…

That certainly raises the question of whether we'd want to make a sharp legal distinction between violent and non-violent coercion in the specific case of rape...times when it is and isn't useful to go into a philosophical discussion. Take it up with rayiner then. Once you stop discussing what the law says in favor of what it should say, you've already gotten into moralizing. But when it's pointed out that the morali…

It's odd to suggest that any discussion of possible changes to the law counts as moral philosophy. As for your last two sentences, there's quite a large middle ground between strict demonstrative reasoning and purely emotional argument. In general, it's rare for moral argument to be a strictly demonstrative affair. So yes, it frequently involves an appeal to principles that don't fully generalize. Aristotle has a nice way of putting it:

"Our discussion will be adequate if it has as much clearness as the subject-matter admits of, for precision is not to be sought for alike in all discussions, any more than in all the products of the crafts. Now fine and just actions, which political science investigates, admit of much variety and fluctuation of opinion, so that they may be thought to exist only by convention, and not by nature. And goods also give rise to a similar fluctuation because they bring harm to many people; for before now men have been undone by reason of their wealth, and others by reason of their courage. We must be content, then, in speaking of such subjects and with such premisses to indicate the truth roughly and in outline, and in speaking about things which are only for the most part true and with premisses of the same kind to reach conclusions that are no better. In the same spirit, therefore, should each type of statement be received; for it is the mark of an educated man to look for precision in each class of things just so far as the nature of the subject admits; it is evidently equally foolish to accept probable reasoning from a mathematician and to demand from a rhetorician scientific proofs."

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#402

Post by imaginenore »

bluehat wrote: post #393
imaginenore wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing whiny articles is counterproductive. A rapist is not going to read it and think - "Uh oh, turns our rape is bad, I should stop". If there's some abuse/assault/rape, you deal with it like in any other field - you call the police, and then you press charges, and then you sue. It's the only thing that really stops the abusers/rapists.

Your argument is that writing an article doesn't stop rape. I find it true that writing an article won't fix my rape seeing as writing an article is not magic a time machine. However, I find it hard to believe that writing an article would not help reduce rape. Writing this article helps people understand rape is common and hopefully make people be more likely to believe the next person who comes forward and is ready…

Rape is actually not common at all. 26-27 per 100,000 population. So one in 3700 - 3840 people get raped. 91% of them are women.

And it's steadily declining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Again, how does complaining about rape stop a rapist?

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#403

Post by bluehat »

hashed wrote: post #400
bluehat wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to me happened years ago. I wasn't ready to talk about it then. Now I am. The window for prosecution has closed, so it is not possible to take it to court anymore. Big events like this take years to heal from. I don't understand why so many people seem to believe that people are incapable of healing any more than they do in the first few days after the event. Like the passing of a loved one, with time,…

According to your article your problems with sexual harassment started at age 14 and continued later for many years by many different people including multiple rapes. A sane person would go to the police and try to stop it. They will certainly not attribute it to the "tech industry" since it is started much before you have been involved in any industry and as we all know it can happen everywhere. I got a feeling you…

Your faith that the legal system reduces drama and solves problems is probably the reason my behavior doesn't make a lot of sense to you.

You didn't begin interacting with the technology industry before you were an adult? No summer programs, meetups, or after-school activities? One of the points I wanted to make is that these issues start impacting people when they are still children, and we're going to have to include that knowledge in our solutions.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#404

Post by bluehat »

imaginenore wrote: post #402
bluehat wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is that writing an article doesn't stop rape. I find it true that writing an article won't fix my rape seeing as writing an article is not magic a time machine. However, I find it hard to believe that writing an article would not help reduce rape. Writing this article helps people understand rape is common and hopefully make people be more likely to believe the next person who comes forward and is ready…

Rape is actually not common at all. 26-27 per 100,000 population. So one in 3700 - 3840 people get raped. 91% of them are women. And it's steadily declining. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics Again, how does complaining about rape stop a rapist?

Your numbers seem to be of police-recorded offenses. Many studies show that only a very small number of rapes are reported. I cited a study where 4% of men self-identified as rapists for scientific study. Half of those men were repeat offenders, and averaged 5.8 victims.

Complaining about rape doesn't stop people who already rape. I never made that argument. You argued that complaining about rape makes the situation in the world worse, and I was asking what your reasoning was for that.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#405

Post by bluehat »

hashed wrote: post #399
bluehat wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have that the tech industry is less sexist than other places? Are you arguing that women like working with sexist people through your finance experience? Are you arguing that women who talk about rape don't have the respect of their peers and must be bad coders? I don't understand any of what you said.

What evidence you got that it is more sexist? Girls don't like sexist people, they like confident people and I have learned it from life. As for the last claim, I don't know how you read it from my comment.

I have no evidence it is more sexist than anywhere else. I only said it was a problem and that it needs solving.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#406

Post by hashed »

bluehat wrote: post #403
hashed wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to your article your problems with sexual harassment started at age 14 and continued later for many years by many different people including multiple rapes. A sane person would go to the police and try to stop it. They will certainly not attribute it to the "tech industry" since it is started much before you have been involved in any industry and as we all know it can happen everywhere. I got a feeling you…

Your faith that the legal system reduces drama and solves problems is probably the reason my behavior doesn't make a lot of sense to you. You didn't begin interacting with the technology industry before you were an adult? No summer programs, meetups, or after-school activities? One of the points I wanted to make is that these issues start impacting people when they are still children, and we're going to have to inclu…

This is bullshit and again you blame the legal system without even trying it, as for the tech industry, just because you were assaulted in this industry doesn't paint the whole industry as worst than any other industry.

Personally, the last thing I want is someone who was repeatedly attacked to teach my daughter or my son how to behave in life. You obviously got no clue how to carry yourself around people, to be raped once is bad luck to be assaulted and raped so many times shows that something is wrong with you, not with the system. You were assaulted by different people and by the same people repeatedly as adults, a sane person would know how to prevent it, yes I blame you, the "victim".

The thing is, you were not raped, you invent this story for attention, that's why you go to the media rather than the police. I wouldn't let someone like you get close to my kids or to the education system, you are a danger to society.

Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower

#407

Post by criley2 »

randyrand wrote: post #398
pekk wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal, but nobody in this thread is a lawyer providing legal advice so that's moot. What is the point of arguing that blackmailing people into sex isn't rape?

My only point was that blackmail is not rape in Illinois. Interpret that as you wish.

>My only point was that blackmail is not rape in Illinois. Interpret that as you wish.

The issue here is that, in your ignorance of legalese, you've misinterpreted the word "force" with a colloquial definition.

Then, because of a mental bias like Dunning-Kruger, you did not stop to think that your ignorance to law would prevent you from having an understanding, you assumed that you were correct in your interpretation by default.

In law, "force" is an interesting concept. You assumed it meant only "unlawful violence" but in law "compulsion" is the second major part of force. As in, compelling someone to act against their free will, which violates their Inalienable Right to Liberty.

You should investigate the legal concept of "force" further because I think you'll find that coercion, blackmail, duress, or any other form of behavior control constitutes legal force and would quality as rape under Illinois law.

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