I will not do a tech interview • Hacker News Board

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#401

Post by Peaker » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:39 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #322

bigtunacan wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to look at the candidate's overall performance in the interview; not the answer to a single question. Describing a closure is actually a great example of something many great software developers WON'T know based upon their prior domain experience. A strong Java or old school C/C++ programmer (yes I know C++11 has closures) may actually be an excellent candidate, but have no idea what a closure is. I would ex…

I can get anything I need to done in JS and I have no idea what a closure is. I've even written an emulator in it. Took me a little while reading to figure out what it is. Apparently it's just using vatiables in a lambda that are from a scope higher than it. I do that all the time, I just didn't know it had a special name. To be fair, I didn't know JS could do lambdas. I've only used them in C# and possibly Python. W…

I don't think everyone agrees, but I think usually, a closure refers to the implementation of that concept, and not the concept itself. The implementation being a pair of the static code alongside the captured environment.

Also, I think most would agree that if the "higher scope" is the global scope, then it isn't actually a closure. For example, C functions can access globals, but C has no closures (barring various extensions).

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#402

Post by ikeellis » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:42 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #62

Granted, there are a lot of bad tech interviews out there (asking about algorithms that nobody ever uses) ... but I do not understand this. Imagine someone's being hired for a front-end position, and we don't have months to get them up to speed. I'm going to ask them to explain how a closure works. How they deal with AJAX. What they think about "!important". Things to be careful about with floats. How CSS precedence/…

For a well done interview, the problem is definitely mine. I wish I could reliably do the right thing and show a quality thought process as I iterate towards a good answer. However, I need to be away from the pressure to speak in order to solve problems. Sometimes this only takes a few minutes, but that silence in an interview ruins my composure.

This problem doesn't happen to me when I'm delivering a product pitch, speaking at a conference, meeting with investors, or any other situation where I'm on equal footing with my audience. Frequently, though, I ask to get back to people later with answers to difficult questions. I also prepare fanatically for those situations, where it's very difficult to prepare for a random tech interview.

A huge part of this is simply finding ways to stack the deck in my favor. A great interviewer knows that it's THEIR job to figure out what I can do well. Most people are not great interviewers. This makes a technical interview a total crapshoot that has never worked out for me.

My post is definitely suggesting that companies should examine their process to see if they're filtering for the right things. More importantly, I'm explaining how I've solved this problem for myself. Will I miss opportunities with my approach? Absolutely. I just now believe that I find better ones with my new method.

One caveat... I mostly consider a question like, "Can you explain what a closure is?" to be conversational. Simple knowledge quizzes are great fodder for a phone screen just to find out if someone even belongs in the room and whether they match the needed skills in general way. Where I get into trouble is with with whiteboard coding, brainteasers, etc.

We could have a great chat about async front end dev and then I'd stare blankly at you when you asked about CSS specifics. That's productive and tells you about my experience, though not my aptitude.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#403

Post by joe_the_user » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:47 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #62

Granted, there are a lot of bad tech interviews out there (asking about algorithms that nobody ever uses) ... but I do not understand this. Imagine someone's being hired for a front-end position, and we don't have months to get them up to speed. I'm going to ask them to explain how a closure works. How they deal with AJAX. What they think about "!important". Things to be careful about with floats. How CSS precedence/…

If you freeze up in interviews, then it doesn't seem like the problem is with interviews -- the problem is with you freezing up

If a person is interviewing for an air traffic controller position or any position with continuous stress and confrontation, well yes.

But if the job isn't a constant stress, constant demand affair but rather an affair of creative, constructive activity, then no.

Now, I suspect one problem might be that more jobs are becoming constant, chaotic stress affairs. In a large sense, that seems like a problem society has but that's just me.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#404

Post by KirinDave » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:48 PM UTC

I loaded the article and searched for "Github", "Bitbucket", "Mercurial" and "Git." I didn't find any. No tech interview and no carefully prepared resume of source with 3rd party annotations for a base level of veracity? No hire. Doesn't matter how neck your beard is.

And I am certainly not going to introduce a TON of overhead into our process bringing you up to speed just to assess this. You go from asking for 3-5 hours of my time to asking for over a week like that is reasonable. Like that is somehow a superior outcome for everyone? Here's a hint: it is not.

You live the life you wanna lead buddy, but I am not going to "trust" that you are a good developer without getting at least some indication that you are not a very convincing impostor. I have trouble with high-stress googletard interviews too (and I don't give them), but to ask for tech jobs without any real evidence of tech capability?

That's unreasonable.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#405

Post by joe_the_user » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:49 PM UTC

I've almost always done really well at technical interviews.

But I support this because a lot of technical interviews are ripoffs of people's time. I've put a lot of effort into technical presentation, done well, and then been disqualified based on other criteria. That sucks and the companies have done it that way because it's easy for them.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#406

Post by scott_s » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:53 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #361

tmoertel wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Regardless of the circumstances in which an interview takes place, you can ask for changes. And usually get them. The only way to be guaranteed not to get the changes you want is not to ask. So, if you ever find yourself in an interview about to go the wrong way, ask.

Sure, but it's still an indicator. If I have to negotiate to get an interview on terms I think are acceptable, how much am I going to have to negotiate every day if I work there?

Yes, it's still an indicator. But so is your performance in the interview, correct? But your argument is that your performance in that style of interview is a weak indicator of your actual performance. Then I think it's also fair to grant that a company starting out with the standard interview style is a weak indicator of what it's like to worth there.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#407

Post by bjterry » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:54 PM UTC

elbear wrote: post #369

tonyarkles wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never passed a callback to a JS function?

That's an anonymous function not a closure. A closure references non-local environments and can "access those non-local variables even when invoked outside of its immediate lexical scope" as Wikipedia puts.

I don't understand your contradiction to the parent poster. All JavaScript functions are closures, including anonymous functions that don't reference any lexically-scoped variables, and even named functions at the top level, which close over the global environment[1]. Also, callback functions don't have to be anonymous functions, you can just as easily pass named functions.

1: http://javascriptweblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/understandi...

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#408

Post by scott_s » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #277

imsofuture wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but a negative reinforcement cycle of tensing up in a medium stress situation is exactly the kind of characteristic that I'm trying to screen out in an interview. Stressful situations happen a lot more than never in the real world (and sometimes they even involve talking to people, like customers) -- I don't want to have coworkers who can't handle that.

But it is different stress. Stress in a job situation is like building a fortress over many months and getting invaded. You know the layout of the terrain like the back of your hand and you can focus on the problem. Stress in an interview is like being air dropped into an enemy fortress. It is hard to know where to turn and you spend as much energy trying to suss out the layout of your new environment as you do react…

I wish I could highlight your comment, and tell everyone in the thread to read it.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#409

Post by emiliobumachar » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 11:01 PM UTC

chris_mahan wrote: post #225

georgemcbay wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adult tigers rarely climb trees even when chasing prey and need a significant running start to do so at all. Though they are cats their mass is importantly very different than domestic cats. You fail the interview for not getting the a-ha question right.

Does the adult tiger realize that sooner or later you have to come down, and rather than risking injury, can just wait for you to come down?

Even though a tiger may be biologically more suited than I to stand starvation, if I'm sure of certain death on the ground I'll take very long to come down. And, who knows, I might just find a few eggs.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#410

Post by subdane » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 11:12 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #62

Granted, there are a lot of bad tech interviews out there (asking about algorithms that nobody ever uses) ... but I do not understand this. Imagine someone's being hired for a front-end position, and we don't have months to get them up to speed. I'm going to ask them to explain how a closure works. How they deal with AJAX. What they think about "!important". Things to be careful about with floats. How CSS precedence/…

FWIW, this is exactly how we recruit at my startup. In fact I was a little worried that it might be a turn off, so it's nice to hear that it's actually preferred (at least by some). Things we're looking for are the ability to get shit done and ship. We aren't looking for genius chess players, we're looking for curious problem solvers with a sense of responsibility and accountability.