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Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

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Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the reply. can't believe I forgot all about Germany! I sometimes joke we would have been better off ( privacy-wise and financially ) if we would have become a federal state of Germany in the '50s. Our Gilder was already linked to the German Mark and you are our largest trade partner. We seem to have the same financial 'hard money' line as well. I visit Germany a lot and am always amazed by the hospitali…

likewise! I was several times in NL and perceived you guys the cooler germans. This open minded culture I adored seemed so fixed to me. I hope this conservative backlash will diminsh.

Mostly agree, - but: How is this conservative?

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#402
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least it's still possible to buy a prepaid SIM card with cash which includes data for ridiculously cheap. And travel in towns on bikes with huge sunglasses and a hat. And buy tickets for traveling between cities with cash. I don't really care that they gather the OVkaart data (they can see that I go to work and back when the weather sucks, so what). What makes me steaming with anger is that they don't seem to…

My gripe too. When I forget to 'check out' in Amsterdam when transferring from metro to train I get fined, even though I did in fact 'check in' for the train. It's so mindnumbingly stupid to have the two check-in/out poles standing next to each other.

I'm willing to bet that the fines are the reason it's not automatic.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#403

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

Hopefully an official response can add some accountability to the process. I put up a White House petition here, which can hopefully get an official response: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/cease-overbroad-su...

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#404
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't reboot the system, rewrite it. Instead of a representative government most western countries suffer, switch to democracy. I mean, democracy . Where the people decide for their rules directly. Where real democratic processes such as random trials are used, instead elections which by nature are heavily influenced by a tiny elite. Where the constitution itself is not written by those who will later rule the countr…

"Democracy is little more than mob rule." -- Thomas Jefferson When more than half the country has an IQ of less than 100, democracy is deeply, deeply flawed. The only way to properly reimplement government is to replace corrupt representatives with trustworthy ones, and offer a voice and most importantly, CHOICE .

So, an elite should rule, because the general population is too dumb to rule itself. I'm not sure the premise is true, but I can respect the argument.

The problem is, how can the system tell the corrupt from the trustworthy? Certainly not with elections: (i) it didn't work, (ii) voters are too poorly informed, and (iii) if the people are too dumb to be trusted with policies, how can they be trusted with their vote?

Recursing back a little, what we really want is a friendly, competent, powerful, and stable governance. That pose a number of problems: we don't know what "friendly" really means, competence is hard to come by, and power is wickedly dangerous if the first criteria are not satisfied.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#405
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't reboot the system, rewrite it. Instead of a representative government most western countries suffer, switch to democracy. I mean, democracy . Where the people decide for their rules directly. Where real democratic processes such as random trials are used, instead elections which by nature are heavily influenced by a tiny elite. Where the constitution itself is not written by those who will later rule the countr…

"Democracy is little more than mob rule." -- Thomas Jefferson When more than half the country has an IQ of less than 100, democracy is deeply, deeply flawed. The only way to properly reimplement government is to replace corrupt representatives with trustworthy ones, and offer a voice and most importantly, CHOICE .

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#406
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't reboot the system, rewrite it. Instead of a representative government most western countries suffer, switch to democracy. I mean, democracy . Where the people decide for their rules directly. Where real democratic processes such as random trials are used, instead elections which by nature are heavily influenced by a tiny elite. Where the constitution itself is not written by those who will later rule the countr…

"Democracy is little more than mob rule." -- Thomas Jefferson When more than half the country has an IQ of less than 100, democracy is deeply, deeply flawed. The only way to properly reimplement government is to replace corrupt representatives with trustworthy ones, and offer a voice and most importantly, CHOICE .

[deleted]

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#407
post #196
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who argue very strongly against government intrusion often seem to ignore the distinction between private and public spaces. I have no problem with any amount of recording equipment in public spaces. Anywhere that a policeman could stand and watch; I see a camera as an efficient aid. I won't let a policeman into my house unless they have a warrant - and not because I have anything to hide, but because upholdin…

Then surely those cameras should be available to the public as well. If anywhere a policeman can stand also counts as anywhere anyone can stand, and if it's a public space as you say, then the people have just as much right to see what's going on as the police. Public is public, right?

Is that not already the case with, for instance, police dash cams? Can't those be requested via the FOIA? (Except when the department decides the footage is "missing"/"corrupted"/"accidentally deleted"/etc., of course)

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#408
post #397

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

It's all a giant scam. All this technology requires huge IT contracts for some of the biggest corporations in the country. It's all kind of a hilariously sad cycle: 1. Energy/resources corps "encourage" the US into war or political involvement/coups to protect their assets (i.e. oil rights in Iran, Iraq, etc. War involves much spending which goes to big contractors) 2. Meddling in the region provokes resentment from…

Your 1. is not the only spark of the process you describe, with considerable accuracy. E.g., the US bent itself all out of shape in Viet Nam and did a lot in Korea, and oil or assets of big US companies were not saved or much at risk or involved. But, yes, some big US companies -- Ike's military- industrial complex -- got big bucks.

And in Viet Nam, a lot of oil was burned, and I have long guessed we burned enough oil to enable the power of OPEC. Keeping B-52 bombers in the air 24 x 7 in the 1950s also burned a lot of oil.

Part of the US overreactions is that from the President on down, it's easier to play cover thy ass by spending US blood and treasure than to speak the often sad, ambiguous, no good option truth to the American people. E.g., in Viet Nam, nearly no one in public office wanted to open themselves to accusations of "Who lost Viet Nam" as happened with "Who lost China" when Mao took over and drove Chang Kai Shek to Taiwan. We finally gave up in Viet Nam when nearly every young person in the country saw someone die in Viet Nam that they had known in high school and the demonstrations were too big to ignore. Even then, President Ford, at the last moment, tried for another big chunk of cash and supplies to Saigon. Congress didn't go along, but Ford had then tried to put the 'blame' on Congress. In some of the earlier days, say, after the Tonkin Gulf thing, there were only a few voices in Congress warning that we were heading for vast disasters with half-vast reasons.

But, we should be able just to say no to absurd foreign adventures and hysterical, ineffective overreactions at home; lot's of other countries do: E.g., in Afghanistan, the EU countries mostly stay out of harm's way. In Gulf War I, there was a fairly significant international effort to push Saddam out of Kuwait, but Gulf War II was essentially just a US effort. Why? For Gulf War II nearly all other countries looked at Saddam and saw a thug in Iraq and concluded that he was just Iraq's problem.

The old remark, maybe from Churchill, that "America always does the right thing after trying everything else" has some truth to it. We are too eager to squander our blood and treasure on absurd foreign adventures. And not just foreign: Now the NSA, FBI, DHS, and more are all going hysterical running around in circles, stirring up dust, and accomplishing next to nothing good and possibly doing a lot of harm.

But as soon as someone rolls back the DHS, the other party will be out for blood at the next pressure cooker in a shopping mall.

It's an old story: In medicine it was long, "The person is sick. We don't know why they are sick. We don't know what to do. But we must do something." which was often harmful. So, a few terrorists do this and that, take advantage of our old silly policy to give any airplane to any terrorist that asks, and we go all hysterical and start bankrupting ourselves and throwing away our Constitution.

Solution: Have the voters wise up. Get that by better information from the Internet. A current case is Syria: We could sit here and debate for hours which is worse, Assad or some of, maybe the most powerful of, the rebels. What do we want there, Assad, in with Iran, wants to attack Israel, a thug in his home country, or some rebels that might lead to an Al Qaeda takeover, turn Syria into a base for radical Islam, attack Israel, etc.? It's ugly there; people are suffering and dying; the US should do something? My guess is, the US should do little or nothing. The enemy of my enemy is my friend? Well, not always!

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So roll over and take it like a champ? If everyone thought this way, there would have been no revolution. At some point, enough is enough and I say that that point is way past.

Well, if enough people say "enough is enough"... what next. My mobile device is tied to my phone, I have some work discounts attached to my service, I have a contract (which will gain fees for early termination). These issues make it highly improbably to truly do any action (when it comes to businesses). However, there is a way politically to actually get something done, but that requires the masses to actually organ…

There won't be an "enough is enough" pushback in the U.S. because the kind of privacy we're discussing is not valued by the public. The average response to hearing news like this is something like: "Unbelievable. Typical rotten politicians, I tell ya. So anyway, are we still on for seeing the new Iron Man movie this weekend?"

The segment of the population that feels strongly about these issues is small and ineffective. In fact, that's how it works with many negative government decisions. How many of your non-developer friends would participate in an uproar about software patent policy? I wonder how many other niches are facing similar situations.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So roll over and take it like a champ? If everyone thought this way, there would have been no revolution. At some point, enough is enough and I say that that point is way past.

Well, if enough people say "enough is enough"... what next. My mobile device is tied to my phone, I have some work discounts attached to my service, I have a contract (which will gain fees for early termination). These issues make it highly improbably to truly do any action (when it comes to businesses). However, there is a way politically to actually get something done, but that requires the masses to actually organ…

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