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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#401

Post by astrodust »

dkural wrote: post #350
mistercow wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point. What a quaint and gross way of looking at the world.

Except it happens to be factually, empirically true. Read the behavioral & social psychology literature; double blind experiments.

So the world is filled with gold-diggers? No. Not true.

You'll find it shocking that in some parts of the world people are happily married without any jewelry at all.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#402

Post by res0nat0r »

Helianthus wrote: post #319
rayiner wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really trying to single "you" out, FWIW. I'm using a generic "you" at a website full of people who likely choose to drive around in the suburban wasteland that is Silicon Valley, who likely work in an industry that repopularized the sprawling suburban office park, and the hypocrisy of their complaining about how other peoples' lifestyle choices are hurting people in Africa.

Look, I don't care that you can assert that we're hypocritical. My honest response is "Duh." I care that when the lens is focused on you, the only defense you have is that you're just as bad as the rest of us. It's completely non-inspirational and devoid of the idea that we should try to be better. It's as empty as the diamonds you're defending.

He's not defending diamonds at all.

He's pointing out that you have a relatively weak argument to be standing on if you are going to get outraged over how evil diamond are, then continue to happily consume dozens of other "evil" products in your everyday life. The only reason these other "evil" products are being brushed under the table is they are much harder for you to do without day to day than a diamond.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#403

Post by Tsagadai »

Spend some time with monkeys or apes and you will no longer be surprised by the "insights" in this article. Pieces like this are written periodically but they say nothing new, original or intriguing. Diamonds are a status symbol in many cultures much like a tree full of fruit is a status symbol if you are a gibbon.

What is really interesting in this type of discussion is the way people build up massive internal models to describe and explain concepts that really are very simple and repetitive in nature. It highlights the way many of us are driven and controlled by our tendency to seek a narrative in data and to see complex patterns in place of a simpler pattern.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#404

Post by sliverstorm »

guylhem wrote: post #178

I see people talking about various things like the (1) (2) (3) arguments for a women to evaluate a man : (1) is the ability to provide; 2) is the willingness to forgo other things (opportunity costs to talk economics) (3) "is demonstrating to the woman's peers her husband's social standing." (signalling) Raynier posted this deep down in a reply which might be lost to you if you don't read all the comments. It would b…

It strikes me as illogical, inconsistent.

Inconsistent with what? Only with the position you have projected on your readers. You can't say to your readers, "I assume you believe this. Therefore, you are illogical and inconsistent". That is illogical.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#405

Post by trailfox »

mistercow wrote: post #344
maratd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

>A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point. What a quaint and gross way of looking at the world.

If X is the price of the rock then for sufficiently large X it can be guaranteed that he won't have any money left over for what's coming "after it" anyway. In some cases a large value of X simply proves that he doesn't apply common sense when managing his finances.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#406

Post by zecho »

enraged_camel wrote: post #304
maratd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

Out of curiosity, I started looking at what a three-months salary engagement ring would look like if I proposed to my wife today.

Man am I lucky I got married right at the end of college and we purchased the engagement ring and wedding bands together to negotiate the price down, for far less money. I can't ever imagine my wife wearing rings like that. When we bought them, the sales lady told us we "can always upgrade the stone later" and we both laughed at the idea. We're still laughing, actually.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#407

Post by brc »

maratd wrote: post #166
kyrra wrote: post #132

(person I know) worked for GE (General Electric) on their industrial diamond production process back in the 90's, and I got to hear lots of fun stories from this. Diamonds that are man-made[1] are stronger (fewer imperfections) than those that are mined from the earth. Because of this, industrial diamonds tend to be man-made. (for reference, industrial diamonds when cutting hard materials, such as metals). While work…

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

If you devalued the diamond, something else would just step into the void, whether it was another gem, something synthetic, whatever.

It would just have to be shiny, small, expensive, and easily seen.

The need for displays of status are common to many animals, humans included. There is a fundamental need there that will be filled if you devalue the predecessor.

Why pick on diamonds anyway? The fashion industry is just as bad - thousands of dollars for garments that cost a fraction of that to produce - and all because people wish to show social status by the clothes they are wearing.

A diamond is no worse than an expensive holiday, a new car, a new suit - whatever. At least a diamond is very durable and can be with the wearer for a lifetime if they so choose.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#408

Post by Goronmon »

astrodust wrote: post #401
dkural wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it happens to be factually, empirically true. Read the behavioral & social psychology literature; double blind experiments.

So the world is filled with gold-diggers? No. Not true. You'll find it shocking that in some parts of the world people are happily married without any jewelry at all.

I find it shocking that there are people that think that a woman wanting financial security makes that woman a 'gold-digger'.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#409

Post by prawn »

If a synthetic diamond is a significant saving and your future fiancée must have a diamond, maybe just get the "fake" - if they run off to have it checked or otherwise discover the truth when trying to sell it, you have bigger problems.

Reality is they want something to gaze at when it catches the light and for friends to fawn over. Perhaps fight the giant diamond fraud with a sneaky play of your own?

Your endless research and fretting about whether the microscopic flaws will be visible will barely count unless you're marrying a diamond grader.

(GF wanted a diamond. I was not so keen to buy one. Split my budget between a legit stone and surprise trip to propose overseas. Third wedding anniversary is today. In hindsight, I wonder if I should've looked at synthetic stones and gone on a longer holiday...)

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#410

Post by Goronmon »

jenius wrote: post #357
enraged_camel wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

You absolutely nailed it with this comment. Was reading pieces of the debate out loud to my girlfriend, who is rather rational and intelligent but for some reason still wants a diamond ring (and I couldn't really figure out why) - when I read this and looked over, I knew you got it 100% right. Well done.

Yup, I've had a similar conversation.

Basically came down to some variation on "I don't ask for a lot (she doesn't), but I want the diamond ring."

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