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“It works better in the app”

shkspr.mobi

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Re: “It works better in the app”

#401

Post by flyingshelf »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #231
azuanrb wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo, you already lost the argument when you have to explain that PWA is the "app". For most users, app is something they install from App Store or Google Play. I get the point of view from developers point of view, but unless the majority of the users are technical people, there's no reason to use PWA these days.

Idk if its not in their best interest or something, but app stores should just allow installing an "app", which is really just a bookmark to website and hides all of the normal browser UI without having to bundle the entire browser with the app.

The point of app stores is that they somehow curate the experience. They can't do that if you just ship a bookmark.

Also I don't think web views in most app stores (namely mobile stores) ship an entire browser. As a matter of fact you're literally not allowed to ship browsers in iOS and that's a huge slice of the market on its own.

Re: “It works better in the app”

#402

Post by ericjmorey »

brk wrote: post #9

At this point the barrier for me to install an app is pretty high. If you're going to needlessly gate certain functions behind an app that work on a desktop browser (or could work in-browser), then I just won't use those functions. If by extension that degrades the value I get from your site, then I just won't use the site, and I won't be contributing to ADU stats you promote to advertisers. Every single company has…

If you intend to have a broad userbase, you must prioritize mobile apps. The general public prefers them. I don't like it, but that's the current landscape.

Re: “It works better in the app”

#403

Post by internet2000 »

the_bear wrote: post #61

In Google's defense, they weren't the ones that championed the "everything must be an app" movement. My memory of the 2010s is that Google (and while they were relevant, Palm) pushed cross-platform web apps, but Apple ran a successful marketing campaign to convince everyone that everything on mobile must be a native app for reasons[1]. So we end up with a walled garden of native apps that must be approved by and pay…

> [1]The "reasons" primarily are that Apple refused to support PWAs, hamstrung mobile Safari, and refused to allow third-party browsers. So while it's true that native apps can offer a better experience than mobile web apps, that's mostly just because Apple artificially restricts web apps.

This is disingenuous. Quoting Steve Jobs himself:

> We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

> This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.

Originally about Adobe's Flash, but can apply with no editing (!) to Google Chrome :)

Re: “It works better in the app”

#404

Post by ericjmorey »

reaperducer wrote: post #367
goosejuice wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you run a consumer to web app? What do your users say? What's the predominant device and OS?

I do. With over 200,000 paying users. The Customer Service department (we're a real business, so we have one of those) forwards all email, social media, and phone contacts about it to me. Number of middle managers who have brought up having an app since 2019: Around five. Number of actual users who asked for an app since 2019: One. Maybe two. Your turn.

If you offered an app, do you think new customers would choose the app over a browser interface?

Do you think most existing users would switch?

Do you think there are many people who don't use your service because there's no app?

Re: “It works better in the app”

#405

Post by ignoramous »

the_bear wrote: post #61

In Google's defense, they weren't the ones that championed the "everything must be an app" movement. My memory of the 2010s is that Google (and while they were relevant, Palm) pushed cross-platform web apps, but Apple ran a successful marketing campaign to convince everyone that everything on mobile must be a native app for reasons[1]. So we end up with a walled garden of native apps that must be approved by and pay…

> My memory of the 2010s is that Google (and while they were relevant, Palm)

Interestingly, Palm (webOS) & Microsoft (Sidekick / WebTV) folks ended up creating/shaping Android.

Re: “It works better in the app”

#407

Post by indidjdjendk »

ratelimitsteve wrote: post #206

a native app's job isn't to parallel the web app's feature set. a native app's job is to get you to accidentally opt in to all sorts of invasive surveillance and allow for a constant stream of attempts to grab your attention.

No, a native app’s job is to provide a cohesive, speedy and MUCH better interface to users; something that is quite impossible with a website.

Re: “It works better in the app”

#408

Post by indidjdjendk »

goosejuice wrote: post #141
tpmoney wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure one can say Apple is intentionally making it difficult to install a web app to the Home Screen because they haven’t implemented a draft proposal to the w3c working group that proposes a spec only chrome has implemented and no other browser except chrome and its derivatives supports.

https://mashable.com/article/apple-reverses-decision-home-sc... Yes one can. They got greedy. https://williamkennedy.ninja/apple/2024/01/30/steve-jobs-int...

Yes and no.

“Add to Home Screen” living on the share menu is as insane as “Find on Page” living there. Which both do. And I don’t think there’s a master plan behind “find on page” being tucked away bafflingly on the share button.

It’s just bad UX. No conspiracy here.

Re: “It works better in the app”

#410

Post by spiralpolitik »

thewebguyd wrote: post #196
the_bear wrote: post #61

In Google's defense, they weren't the ones that championed the "everything must be an app" movement. My memory of the 2010s is that Google (and while they were relevant, Palm) pushed cross-platform web apps, but Apple ran a successful marketing campaign to convince everyone that everything on mobile must be a native app for reasons[1]. So we end up with a walled garden of native apps that must be approved by and pay…

Even Apple, before caving in, didn't want apps. On the original iPhone there was no SDK, Jobs' "sweet solution" to expanding functionality was web apps pinned to the home screen. Everyone complained, loudly, and they caved in and launched the app store.

The complaints at the time were entirely valid. The state of web development for mobile was pretty dire. HTML 5 wasn't released until 22 January 2008. People wanted to build apps for iOS in XCode. Nothing else would have been acceptable.

IMHO the web community dug their own grave here. WAP/WML and whatever it was the Japanese phones used was a better starting point than HTML etc as they'd already solved a lot the big problems around mobile developement. They were not perfect and support was terrible but they were much more focused on the problem of mobile app development than the "everything is the same nail" approach of HTML.

Even to this day the UX experience of web apps in HTML/Javascript/CSS is subpar to native apps and I say that as someone who spends their day developing such web apps. You can only put so much lipstick on the pig.

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