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Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

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Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#401
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are different terms.

If you're not already aware that two different descriptors can both accurately describe something even if they're not synonyms, I'm not sure how to help you. What I originally said was accurate, and no amount of other accurate terminology will change that.

Why would I be unaware of that?

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#402
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle Java is also basically effectively in KTLO mode. The biggest use of Java currently is Android, and Google is on a path to migrate to Fuchsia eventually. The second biggest use is Apache Spark/Kafka, but with LLMs now, you can pretty much re implement all of that functionality in pure C. They just want a legal angle, since this is how they make most of their money.

Impressive. Every word in that paragraph was wrong. well, except the last line.

Its not wrong, its just that people don't see the writing on the wall.

It was the same conversations about Haskell, how functional programming with no side effects was the future, e.t.c and so on.

There is literally ZERO reason to use Java outside of Android these days. If you are still developing applications in Java, you are behind.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle Java is also basically effectively in KTLO mode. The biggest use of Java currently is Android, and Google is on a path to migrate to Fuchsia eventually. The second biggest use is Apache Spark/Kafka, but with LLMs now, you can pretty much re implement all of that functionality in pure C. They just want a legal angle, since this is how they make most of their money.

Java is absolutely massive for a huge variety of applications, most of them servers and daemons. The most common user-facing Java implementations are probably Android and Minecraft, but behind the scenes it powers everything from blogs to logistics to networking equipment to SIM cards. Oracle's own OpenJDK is free but they will only let consumers download Java 8 for free, that's why companies like Jetbrains ship JDKs…

> but behind the scenes it powers everything from blogs to logistics to networking equipment to SIM cards.

All because of baked in legacy. This is going to change in the next few years. You beat Java with Python today very easily - write your application and tests in Python, have LLM transpile it to C.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for raw surveillance footage not being subject to copyright? I'd not heard of this, and a web search didn't turn up anything.

I'm the person who originally said "how can that be true about surveillance video?". I found a good writeup on it, https://www.techdirt.com/2020/02/24/can-you-license-video-yo... The tldr is you really can't copyright raw surveillance video, but you can apparently lightly edit to turn it into a creative work that is copyrightable.

Thanks for the link but:

> The tldr is you really can't copyright raw surveillance video, but you can apparently lightly edit to turn it into a creative work that is copyrightable.

The article doesn't say that, it doesn't speak to CCTV surveillance footage. It discusses rare cases like cameras falling from aircraft, or animals pressing the button to take a photo.

I can see your line of reasoning about there being zero creative input in the video's creation, but if surveillance footage isn't subject to copyright, I'd expect there to be plenty written about it.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even a conspiracy theory. Just the most likely explanation.

It’s been established that LLM-generated code is not copyrighted so I can fully understand the company living from copyrighted data to not accept LLM-generated contributions.

It has not been established that in every legal system you have no copyright for anything in a project that was assisted in parts by LLM:s.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. Billion dollar companies doubtless ruin many more lives, but systemically rather than directly.

Is this how you operate? You just make nonsensical blanket statements to latch on to some anti-capitalist cred? Please tell me how Burlington Coat Factory, or J.B. Hunt, or Ulta Beauty are ruining lives. And these are not billion-dollar companies, but 10+ billion. And then, please - with a straight face - explain how their choice of Oracle ERP vs SAP vs Workday vs ServiceNow "ruins" someone's life comparable to being…

I love low-hanging fruit in the morning.

You managed to pick three companies with documented histories involving violations or enforcement actions concerning workers’ schedules and safety, religious & racial discrimination, hazardous waste, and multimillion-dollar wage disputes. Burlington is particularly funny as an example because the government was literally ordering it to return more than $1.3 million to workers just last year.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s nonsensical to define the actions of nature as legitimate or illegitimate.

What I meant was that there is no moralizing of natural force, which this metaphor tries to equivocate. Oh, it's just like the wind, don't get in Larry's way!

Totally understand. Unlike nature, Larry should have some sort of moral compass, though his points to hell.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the person who originally said "how can that be true about surveillance video?". I found a good writeup on it, https://www.techdirt.com/2020/02/24/can-you-license-video-yo... The tldr is you really can't copyright raw surveillance video, but you can apparently lightly edit to turn it into a creative work that is copyrightable.

Thanks for the link but: > The tldr is you really can't copyright raw surveillance video, but you can apparently lightly edit to turn it into a creative work that is copyrightable. The article doesn't say that, it doesn't speak to CCTV surveillance footage. It discusses rare cases like cameras falling from aircraft, or animals pressing the button to take a photo. I can see your line of reasoning about there being zer…

The people up thread who replied to my original message give some other references for why this is the case. I agree with you that it is very surprising that it works this way, that this is considered a settled legal decision.

From the techdirt piece, seen above:

"To license out copyright, there must be creative contribution. This can arise from cutting/editing the video in a creative manner. Since there is no other prevailing copyright, the editing then makes you sole copyright owner entitled to all proceeds.

You may feel inclined to call bullshit on this, but it’s actually the ongoing revenue model for "revised" editions of Beethoven, Bach and older."

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#409
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own the copyright to a painting you commissioned or does the artist? You may have described what you wanted, but the creative work is the output of the artist. Same with an LLM.

This would be a “work-for-hire,” thus not owned by the artist. As a matter of fact, the law does not even consider the artist to be the author of the work . So the point you thought you were making is actually quite backwards. > A copyrightable work is “made for hire” in two situations: > When it is created by an employee as part of the employee’s regular duties > When a certain type of work is created as a result of…

Thanks ChatGPT, but you didn’t actually read the document you cited. Commissioning a painting doesn’t qualify as work for hire wrt to copyright.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this how you operate? You just make nonsensical blanket statements to latch on to some anti-capitalist cred? Please tell me how Burlington Coat Factory, or J.B. Hunt, or Ulta Beauty are ruining lives. And these are not billion-dollar companies, but 10+ billion. And then, please - with a straight face - explain how their choice of Oracle ERP vs SAP vs Workday vs ServiceNow "ruins" someone's life comparable to being…

I love low-hanging fruit in the morning. You managed to pick three companies with documented histories involving violations or enforcement actions concerning workers’ schedules and safety, religious & racial discrimination, hazardous waste, and multimillion-dollar wage disputes. Burlington is particularly funny as an example because the government was literally ordering it to return more than $1.3 million to workers…

So fundamentally, your argument is that employing people ruins their lives. $1.3 million across how many hundreds or thousands of employees is not all that much each. Yes - they have every right to justice and to pursue what they were owed. And the company should be penalized. But still, they collected what, 97 or 98% of their rightful wage? And contributions to Social Security, and most likely some healthcare benefits. Would they have better off not being employed at all? Or work somewhere else for less money?
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