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Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

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Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#401

RIP to the end of an era. Was IdTech used outside of Id? Or was it just a Doom series thing as of recently?

early idtech engines were used in lots of games. Since Bethesda bought them they stopped licensing the engine to outside companies. However, Bethesda games could and did still use idtech.

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic principle is everyone gets the same pay, meaning if you are someone who wants to put in a lot of work to rise up quickly, it won't happen.

This isn't true and I don't know where this idea comes from

Anti-union propaganda is where it comes from.

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#403
Asha Sharma is managing the Xbox team like a hotel. Cut costs and boost profits. It works in the short run, but this is surely no way to run innovative game studios. Hopefully spinning these talented folks out will result in gaming innovation outside of Microsoft, because the vision inside Microsoft sure looks bleak.

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is true and has been true for decades in the game industry. The other side of this seesaw is: Games are fundamentally in the novelty business. Players like some amount of familiarity, but they want new experiences. Every game engine has a sort of "grain" to it where it tends to produce games with a certain look and feel. The flat-ish shading and floaty physics of Unity is a particularly visible example of…

> Every game engine has a sort of "grain" to it where it tends to produce games with a certain look and feel. The flat-ish shading and floaty physics of Unity is a particularly visible example of this. Ridiculous and provably false. It's like saying "every novel written with a typewriter tends to produce stories with a certain theme and dialog"

> It's like saying "every novel written with a typewriter tends to produce stories with a certain theme and dialog"

Rather, it's like saying that every academic paper typeset in Latex using the stock Computer Modern font face gives off the same sort of vibe. That doesn't mean that every paper typeset in Latex has identical value, but academic papers aren't trying to sell themselves based on first impressions, whereas games are.

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#406
I'm generally laissez-faire about corporate layoffs. Corporation should have the freedom to organize how they want.

Still, this sticks in my craw. Microsoft didn't just buy a game studio. They bought a fleet of studios, a non trivial segment of the entire video game market. And they did almost nothing with them, and then they just light the goodwill on fire. It isn't just the IP. It is the brand, the organizational work, the history. Just vaporized.

The least they could have done is sell the studios mostly intact.

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#407
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're fully agreeing with me that it has pretty much nothing to do with the value of the employees and essentially everything with how the employees no longer fit the company's plans.

I think if you read the words I wrote you’ll find I did not agree with your framing

I promise that I did, and I did not find that; you said that it's "nothing like" but then the rest of it seems to match what I was saying in my analogy. Would you mind please saying more about the difference you see between our opinions?

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#408
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I was one of the self-taught software "engineers" from the 90s. I enjoyed making more money than I deserved for my special interest and for the duration of my career I was very much against software engineering unionization as it seemed to mostly be gatekeeping for a lucrative and enjoyable line of work. Now I'm 40+ years old and my job has morphed from designing systems and writing code to sweet-talking LLMs in…

How is unionization gatekeeping? I honestly don't understand what you mean. I can't see any disadvantage for the employees in joining a union.

Industries with high levels of unionization tend to have lower turnover, which can be good for employees already inside, but can make it harder for new employees to join. They also can have various rules, like seniority, that take precedence over other forms of promotions (whether meritocratic or not). Unions are also inherently political where membership voting, with all the internal dealing, agreements, possible corruption, drama, etc that entails causing issues.

Not all unions are the same. There are absolutely unions that are as bad as the naysayers say, but there are also ones that you rarely hear about that just quietly chug along with decent enough relationships with employers.

That being said, the appeal to me is minimal. I like working for small to medium sized companies where I can enjoy the flexibility of what tech stacks I work on. While the idea of some sort of optional trade union that could cover me for benefits, legal fights, contract enforcement, and maybe extra job insurance is appealing, nothing like that exists where I live. I have gotten healthy severances in the past due to knowing the rights I have in my jurisdiction, but that also means having the will and ability to hire a lawyer.

I'm in my mid 40s and rode the wave of a workers market over the last 2 decades. I'm still in demand, too. It's not quite as easy as it was 5+ years ago, but AI hasn't replaced me, though I'm actually "supervising" its work from an experienced angle. From that perspective I'm just a lot more productive.

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#409

Microsoft, one the world's greatest monopolists, bequeaths a game engine monopoly unto Epic Games, in one the biggest corporate blunders of all time. If they were smarter about this, they would commoditize their compliment and open source the Doom The Dark Ages engine just like John Carmack did with the Quake 3 engine.

Yes. As I suggested in another thread: an open-source, modern IdTech would fill the empty quadrant in the Godot : Unity :: ____ : Unreal matrix. A few mid-size studios pitching in to fund continued development on a Blender model could turn IdTech into a major competitor to Unreal Engine in a relatively short timeframe, ultimately costing them a lot less than licensing.

I guess Microsoft doesn't think in those terms.

Doesn't Microsoft want fewer, bigger games locked into their Project Helix platform? Why compete with Unreal when they can sign a sweet license for the engine?

Why build an ecosystem when they are already a huge monopoly?

Re: Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software

#410

RIP to the end of an era. Was IdTech used outside of Id? Or was it just a Doom series thing as of recently?

Absolutely, the first versions until idTech 5 were open source and a number of important engines, like Source, derive from it. Wikipedia actually has a family tree that's broader than I remembered: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Quake_-_... The CoD series, Source games (Half Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead), Titanfall, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech
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