Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 429 posts

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#401

Post by Yizahi »

frm88 wrote: post #340
Yizahi wrote: post #262

I'm interested in AMOC and other aspects of the problem, and this recent video by RealLifeLore was very informative for me, unlike other;s like this OP article and the like. I definitely recommend it if previously you saw only two extreme points of view about AMOC. Basically the current is weakening, yes, but it's shutdown will happen neither soon nor unexpected. In fact there are several ocean wide monitoring statio…

In fact there are several ocean wide monitoring stations which don't rely on a guess work that much and there is a clear data trend about AMOC power and shutdown requirements. Trump Admin Just Rolled Back $368M Ocean Monitoring System https://www.newsweek.com/ocean-observatories-initiative-cut-...

I'm not surprised. Absolutely demented guy with an equally spineless and corrupt government. Let me guess, NSF had at some point in time awarded Obama some award and our twelve year old is throwing a tantrum over his crush? :)

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#402

Post by jandrese »

georgeburdell wrote: post #215
jandrese wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see a whole lot of panic from industrialists over the birth rate drop in the industrialized world. They claim it is an extinction level event for humanity. This is not quite correct. It is an extinction level event for economic models that assume unbounded growth of the consumer base.

It’s disingenuous to imply “industrialists” are the only ones unhappy. Anyone who doesn’t want to die a stranger in their own land is also concerned.

Here I thought I was being more diplomatic to elide the blatant racism when discussing this topic.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#403

Post by ETH_start »

hliyan wrote: post #32

I recently finished rewatching The Three Body Problem in which (spoilers follow) the world panics and goes into overdrive because an alien invasion is due in... 400 years. If the current climate trends continue, vast areas of the Earth may not be suitable for habitation within half that time, and we still can't seem to convince some people this is real. Granted I was a climate change skeptic myself until about 10 yea…

There has been almost zero loss of sea ice since 1980. What is sparking your alarm?

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#404

Post by qsera »

Y-bar wrote: post #399
qsera wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the ultimate reason to be rich? Isn't the ultimate incentive? The rich have built roads, infrastructure, done research and improve QoL for everyone. We payed them and they grew even more rich. And when the judgement day come, you are going to deny everything you have paid them? That was the whole contract! I get that we can't help but be dumb and consume and enable some entities to be so rich. But then we…

> The rich have built roads No, the working class built the roads. > infrastructure No, the workers built the infrastructure. > done research No, the academics and researchers did that. > improve QoL for everyone Explain how Putin (Russia's riches man) improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how rich people like Epstein improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how Trump and Jared Kushner improves the QoL of everyone. Expl…

> No, the working class built the roads.

Are you serious? That is pretty naive!

>Explain how Putin (Russia's riches man)..

Look at the money in your pocket. Do you know how it got there? There is one and only one way to get it. Do some service for the society. Either you did it, or someone else who did gave it to you. Either way society owes you.

Same goes for the rich.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#405

Post by bayesianbot »

mrguyorama wrote: post #396
bayesianbot wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake was not spending the first years of school teaching people to care about what is true, and also the tools for critical thinking to figure out what is real and how sure we are about it. I thought that already when I was a kid and saw that people do not care at all if their beliefs are correct, and because of that don't care about learning any critical thinking skills, but I wasn't convinced and thought may…

>The mistake was not spending the first years of school teaching people to care about what is true I always love when people insist that schools should teach "Critical thinking" Because they do . What did you learn in English class? What did you learn the days you were brought to the library in middle school to learn about how libraries worked? If you took AP language and comp, you were given a very thorough educatio…

My basis for critical thinking is like 80% scientific method, splitting arguments in the smallest possible pieces to help avoid bias, testing them thoroughly, trying to destroy my own arguments until I can't.

In school the scientific method, maybe the most important invention of human kind, was pretty much skimmed over on some science classes on 5th-6th grade. People didn't learn how to apply it and do their own tests in everyday life, at all. Didn't even understand they should, it was just a part of science (subject that nobody cared about anyways).

Even those essays and other projects it's crazy how much weight was put on "books great, reliable magazines ok, tabloids bad, internet mostly bad but .fi domain is the most reliable.." and later down the road "wikipedia bad". That does not help much in current media landscape, where you can buy a book to confirm whatever you want to believe.

I learnt my own critical thinking skills from scientific books and my own curious neurodivergent mind that was obsessed with being as correct as I could. I saw in real time how lacking it was in school, how it affected my peers, and thought this is gonna be a problem in the future, and here we are.

> In reality, people don't learn those critical thinking skills because they ignore school. Their parents taught them that education is liberal brainwashing and that it shouldn't be trusted. Their experience is that school is useless because that's what parents and media told them so they didn't pay attention and now as adults they blame the schools and more media insists that it is the schools fault.

This was absolutely not something that meaningful in my community. Yes there were people like that, but they were just a tiny slice of all the people that didn't really learn to think critically but would probably have wanted to if we just taught them.

I'd call what was taught in school "vibe critical thinking", it seems good on the surface but it really is not even close to good enough. Sure if you get to university it gets better, but that doesn't help with majority of voters.

I don't really know much about education, but even having something like weekly session where we'd talk about how we applied scientific method and other tools in our life to test our claims, and would have judged the tests/methods used by others to see the problems in them to improve, would probably have mattered greatly. At least people would see that you can and should do that in real life, while learning a good intuition on what makes a test good. Honestly people hearing me testing my claims thoroughly made everyone look at me like I'm a crazy person obsessed with the thing I'm trying to prove, when I just understood that if I don't do that my beliefs are worthless.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#406

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #294
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When civilization falls to the point that nobody can make birth control pills, if not before. This won't save us. By the time civilization can't make birth control pills, it also means we've lost advanced medical care and now maternal/infant mortality kicks in. Nearly every baby born now survives into adulthood, barring rare misfortunes. But the idea that obstetrics will still be cruising along while we can't crank…

> We'll see 0.1 fertility rates in our lifetimes I'd take that bet. Except... the term of the bet is "in our lifetimes", which means that it ends when one of us dies, which means that collecting is going to be a problem. For the record, I'm 64. "In my lifetime" is somewhere between 1 day and 40 years.

I'm 53. Even if you told me that you have a history of heart disease in your family I'd take the bet. It's grim. I figure we see sub-0.2 in South Korea by 2047, but it'd be cheating to round down until it's like 0.14... that'd only take a few more years, 3-5 maybe. Japan's non-immigrant population will hit that in roughly the same time frame, but I don't have a clear read on the politics there. China will be hitting 0.5ish about that time unless the regime panics and tries to implement forced breeding. The Uighur thing might even now be experiments in that direction. Europe's only about 20 years behind east Asia.

We'll still be getting the cycle of "politicians are trying tax incentives" and "someone needs to fix the economy so people feel safe having children" headlines in North America, which is apparently enough to lull everyone into thinking it's not a problem.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#407

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #348
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only reason it is a concern is that our economic system is built on infinite growth, This is plainly, factually wrong. A sub-replacement fertility level isn't "the growth has stopped". It's "rapid shrinking has started, shrinking of the sort that causes even more shrinking". That's the concern. > It's better it fail by people voluntarily having fewer kids If they have fewer than 2.1 on average, that's not better…

> It's literally "you should die out and become extinct". That's what you're telling them. This is both dumb and dishonest. It's dumb because you're not making an actual argument, just pointing at a potential long-term outcome, which isn't even an obviously bad outcome; if there are no more humans, there are also no humans to fret about their own lack of existence, so who exactly is being harmed here? It's dishonest…

>which isn't even an obviously bad outcome;

Ok. I suppose that I can play along and pretend (literal) human extinction isn't a "bad outcome". Is that the point of contention? You think it's ok or even preferable, while I dislike that outcome? Is that the source of our conflict? If so, this is the closest to honesty I've ever heard from someone like yourself.

But for me, this makes you my enemy. People who truly believe as you do are beyond redemption. No courtesy, kindness, or obligation is owed to you. You can be allowed no influence, no one should hear your voice.

>It's dishonest to claim that a temporarily shrinking population

It's never temporary. We've jumped out of the plane without a parachute, there's not much time left, but you're still arguing "sometimes things move upward".

Shrinking populations by their very nature cause more shrinking. There are dozens of well-understood and empirically confirmed mechanisms that make this so.

It's actually pretty deserving that the people like yourself should be wiped out. I would just rather you didn't take the rest of us with you.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#408

Post by queenkjuul »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #361
camgunz wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trucks are 3.4% of US GHG (~60m trucks at 3.51 megatons CO2/yr is ~211 megatons CO2/yr out of 6,266 megatons from the US total). If we never started another pickup truck ever again we're still 96.6% away from zero emissions. It's also worth saying those people would probably still drive something and the odds of that car being zero emissions is very low, so this is pretty charitable. Anyway, this kind of finger waggi…

Trucks are just an illustrative point. Substitute for whatever trivial thing it is that people like and would not be willing to give up. {Beef, air travel, fast fashion, 69 degree interiors during the summer, etc.} Each one of these things only contributes a little on their own but if you add them all up it sums to a large fraction of overall US emissions. Also not sure where you got the 3.7% number, but light duty t…

69F interiors would be no problem if powered by solar. The government massively subsidizes oil, it could have been subsidizing solar for decades instead but didn't because of how powerful and profitable the oil industry is.

Nobody gives a shit how the factory that made their toy was powered. Top-down approach forcing industrial changes could nearly solve the whole problem without individuals needing to change much of anything.

But entrenched interests will propagandize and say "the hippie whackos think you shouldn't be allowed AC" (like you kinda seem to be doing, frankly) when that isn't and never has been the only option.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#409

Post by Y-bar »

qsera wrote: post #404
Y-bar wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rich have built roads No, the working class built the roads. > infrastructure No, the workers built the infrastructure. > done research No, the academics and researchers did that. > improve QoL for everyone Explain how Putin (Russia's riches man) improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how rich people like Epstein improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how Trump and Jared Kushner improves the QoL of everyone. Expl…

> No, the working class built the roads. Are you serious? That is pretty naive! >Explain how Putin (Russia's riches man).. Look at the money in your pocket. Do you know how it got there? There is one and only one way to get it. Do some service for the society. Either you did it, or someone else who did gave it to you. Either way society owes you. Same goes for the rich.

> Are you serious? That is pretty naive!

Strange. I only see working class people building roads here. Show me a picture of a billionaire building a road.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#410

Post by qsera »

Y-bar wrote: post #409
qsera wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the working class built the roads. Are you serious? That is pretty naive! >Explain how Putin (Russia's riches man).. Look at the money in your pocket. Do you know how it got there? There is one and only one way to get it. Do some service for the society. Either you did it, or someone else who did gave it to you. Either way society owes you. Same goes for the rich.

> Are you serious? That is pretty naive! Strange. I only see working class people building roads here. Show me a picture of a billionaire building a road.

Show me a picture of working class people building roads on their own initiative without a billionaire paying them.
Post reply on HN