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AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

axelk.ee

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Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#401

Post by b00ty4breakfast »

dvduval wrote: post #27

The broader problem of original sources not being given credit in a way that rewards them remains. Websites owners are paying to host their content so that spiders can come and crawl them and index it into the AI and then if they’re lucky, they might get a citation, but otherwise there’s very little reward for being a provider of content. And of course, this is something that’s getting worse and worse. Why look at a…

>Why look at a website when it's all in AI?

well, at least in the case of google, I'm pretty sure that's the point. Or at least, they are doing things that would seem to be moving towards being an oracle with all the answers and not the signpost that points you in the right direction. The destination rather than the gateway.

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#402

Post by groundzeros2015 »

beering wrote: post #280
gspr wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strictly worse world in almost every sense. It's as if we abolished physical property rights and suggested people arm themselves to keep what is (was) theirs instead. Civilization, gone.

It’s a false equivalence to say that intellectual property is property. Taking your car deprives you of your car. Taking your idea lets civilization advance.

No. It means people don’t invest in things they can’t control or keep secret.

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#403

Post by ofjcihen »

rickydroll wrote: post #397
gabbagool wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this whole heartedly. What's the point of even having copyright law at this point? What's even crazier to think about is that to use the latest versions of these models for which you supplied training data, you have to pay hundreds of dollars a month. I would love to get a settlement check proportional to my model weights. Even if it's $0.10, at least everyone out there will get what they're owed.

From my perspective, everybody trains on the knowledge and experience of those who came before. AI just does the same thing at scale. I do not value copyright. All it does is give you standing to sue if somebody reproduces your work. It does not differentiate or account for parallel creation. I cannot count how many times I have "created" something, only to find it in a research paper later. Part of the reason I thin…

The fact that these companies are making money off of it negates your argument.

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#404

Post by philipov »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #401
dvduval wrote: post #27

The broader problem of original sources not being given credit in a way that rewards them remains. Websites owners are paying to host their content so that spiders can come and crawl them and index it into the AI and then if they’re lucky, they might get a citation, but otherwise there’s very little reward for being a provider of content. And of course, this is something that’s getting worse and worse. Why look at a…

>Why look at a website when it's all in AI? well, at least in the case of google, I'm pretty sure that's the point. Or at least, they are doing things that would seem to be moving towards being an oracle with all the answers and not the signpost that points you in the right direction. The destination rather than the gateway.

remember AMP?

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#406

Post by runarberg »

falcor84 wrote: post #331
deaton wrote: post #30

"Steal an apple and you're a thief. Steal a kingdom and you're a statesman." - Literal Disney villain

Ironically this phrase was said by Jafar in Disney's 2019 live action remake of Aladdin, but wasn't part of the original 1992 version. And I personally would argue that this corporate remake is a worse creative "theft" than what random people are doing with GenAI.

I would call it cultural theft. But a better word is cultural appropriation, and the original cartoon—though iconic—did it worse. Aladdin was first written sometime in the 9th or the 10th century (oldest surviving complete manuscript of 1001 nights is from the 15th century). It was translated into English in the 18th century.

Disney made a cartoon of the story without understanding the culture it comes from with the main purpose of selling it to an audience with an even less understanding. And the results was a horrible misrepresentation of somebody else’s cultural heritage.

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#408

Post by khuey »

falcor84 wrote: post #331
deaton wrote: post #30

"Steal an apple and you're a thief. Steal a kingdom and you're a statesman." - Literal Disney villain

Ironically this phrase was said by Jafar in Disney's 2019 live action remake of Aladdin, but wasn't part of the original 1992 version. And I personally would argue that this corporate remake is a worse creative "theft" than what random people are doing with GenAI.

Disney owns the 1992 production of Aladdin so who exactly are they "stealing" from?

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#409

Post by _aavaa_ »

caconym_ wrote: post #257
_aavaa_ wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many would be written if copyright was only 20 years instead of more than a century? To the point that most people will never be legally allowed to directly build off of the culture they grew up in. Lord of the rings will be under copyright til roughly 2050. I think Tolkien's estate has gotten more than enough money from that book and it's time to let other use the word hobbit without the threat of a law…

> I wonder how many would be written if copyright was only 20 years instead of more than a century? I expect it would not move the needle much. I support reduced copyright periods, though not in the specific way you do. But that's not what we're talking about here, is it? The comment I replied to seemed to be advocating for total abolition of copyright law, and my comment is written to be interpreted in that context.…

For what it’s worth I think abolishing copyright wouldn’t have as big of an impact on art production as you do. Most artists (e.g. musicians or authors) aren’t struggling because their art is popular but copied by others (or lack of copyright). But because nobody listens to or reads their work.

Even before AI more people tried to be an author/musician than could ever hope to gain even financial success. I don’t think less copyright will dissuade them.

> every author borrows

Borrows yes. But that has changed drastically in the last 100 years because of what has become the copyright system.

I’ll be long dead and gone before people can make and publish their own LOTR, or Star Wars, or whatever franchise they grew up with. Disney would be impossible to start given the current regulations, all those tales would be locked up, and we would all be worse for it.

Re: AI is just unauthorised plagiarism at a bigger scale

#410

Post by JonathanMerklin »

falcor84 wrote: post #331
deaton wrote: post #30

"Steal an apple and you're a thief. Steal a kingdom and you're a statesman." - Literal Disney villain

Ironically this phrase was said by Jafar in Disney's 2019 live action remake of Aladdin, but wasn't part of the original 1992 version. And I personally would argue that this corporate remake is a worse creative "theft" than what random people are doing with GenAI.

I'll bite. What's your argument, or at least the comment-sized gist of it?
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