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DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

simonwillison.net

401–410 of 420 posts

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if it exists already, but bazel would be very useful for the same type of MCP server. Since all dependencies are explicit you can pretty easily do a bazel (r)deps query to find related targets.

Similar idea, I find tree sitter is nice because it already supports a bunch of languages and it's easily extensible. Once you the AST, you can really have the LLM go to town with it.

yeah, lsp integration is way better than grep

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#402
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It obviously went through lots of files in both prompts but total cost? Just $0.09 for the Pro version. When people say that LLMs aren't worth it, it kills me. A lot of us, on average, make $100+ an hour. $0.09 is You can't even read the vast majority of prompt responses that fast. LLMs will continue to get better (I'm doubtful at previous rates, all indications are showing that progress is slowing and costs are in…

I know I'm guilty of making this sort of argument sometimes, but it's just not valid. I don't get paid for every waking hour of every day. Often I'm using an LLM for something that's uncompensated, so my hourly wage equivalent is irrelevant. And for times when we might use an LLM for something related to paid work, it's still money out of your paycheck (unless the employer is paying for it; go nuts in that case). And…

> You just end up doing more work.

Might want to dig into that one a bit deeper there.

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#404
post #14

I'm surprised that people here don't care at all about these models openly training on your data, especially if you use them straight from the model developer. Whereas things like "GitHub now automatically opts everyone into using their code for model training" get hundreds of justifiably angry comments, I never see this brought up anymore on posts like these talking about using Chinese models through OpenRouter. Thi…

From the EU side. I think we'll make a cost comparison between the US ( where it's leaders are doing weird shit against the EU and pro Russia) vs China ( who at least gives cheap models and doesn't actually tries to take over an entire European country).

US has too much influence atm. I'm ok with switching between "bullies".

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#405
post #400
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic and OpenAI took your data, trained their model, and tell you "we are not going to tell you anything how we trained our models, we are not giving your the weights our models, you will have to pay us to access the model trained from your data". they took your rights and your data. Chinese labs took your data, trained their model, and tell you "this paper details how our models are trained using your data, her…

Hold up. Look, this is all shades of grey but saying Chinese labs all release open weights stuff is kinda crazy thing to say. Right now they are doing that because they are still trying to catch up to Anthropic, Google, and OpenAI. The moment they have the special sauce, they will shut it down and you won't be able to run their stuff anymore outside of them. Why do I say that? We already have the evidence in the diff…

Now we get to the nub. American anti-Chinese rhetoric. Very good.

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I even got a warning on my OpenAI account. This is kind of terrifying to me, regularly. No real manner of recourse to normal people without a following, potential exclusion from real fundamental tooling. Imagine OpenAI goes on to buy 20 companies and now you cant use Figma, Next, whatever just because you once tripped some very foggy line somehow. Not just OpenAI but the entire ecosystem is so... hard to read. I wa…

It's probably because you were talking about a quote from a book (ie copyrighted material). Authors have sued the AI companies for repeating / memorizing copyrighted works, and getting an AI to discuss a quote would be making it repeat a portion of copyrighted work. Funny that your case is Kurt Vonnegut. I think I had Claude refuse a task where I was doing an OCR scan of a book review (in a zine / journal a family me…

> Authors have sued the AI companies for repeating / memorizing copyrighted works, and getting an AI to discuss a quote would be making it repeat a portion of copyrighted work.

short quotes are fair use..

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#407
post #9

Deepseek v4 Pro feels like Claude Opus 4.6 in it's personality but here's what I did find out about costs: I did cut loose Deepseek v4 on a decent sized Typescript codebase and asked it to only focus on a single endpoint and go in depth on it layer by layer (API, DTOs, service, database models) and form a complete picture of types involved and introduced and ensure no adhoc types are being introduced. It developed a…

> It obviously went through lots of files in both prompts but total cost? Just $0.09 for the Pro version. When people say that LLMs aren't worth it, it kills me. A lot of us, on average, make $100+ an hour. $0.09 is You can't even read the vast majority of prompt responses that fast. LLMs will continue to get better (I'm doubtful at previous rates, all indications are showing that progress is slowing and costs are in…

100+ on average?! That hurt.

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use Tinfoil for inference, which lets you use the model in the cloud while getting similar privacy as running locally: https://tinfoil.sh/inference . Disclaimer I'm the cofounder. This works by running the model inside a secure enclave (using NVIDIA confidential computing) and verifying the open source code running inside the enclave matches the runtime attestation. The docs walk you through the verification…

Worth noting that NVIDIA confidential computing and similar schemes have been compromised and shouldn't be relied upon if it really matters. See https://tee.fail/ and similar.

with physical access right?

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#409
post #97

This gives me hope that when the subsidization circus ends and everyone is on pure usage then it won't be entirely exclusionary to mere mortals who don't have $200pm budgets.

it will be more expensive when subsidization ends? how is it going to be more inclusive?

Re: DeepSeek V4 – almost on the frontier

#410
post #243

It might be at the frontier, but DeepSeek is really struggling with compute. The amount of 429 Rate Limit responses I've been getting just testing this thing made me pause all my attempts at cross-comparing it to others. I'm gonna stick to GLM5.1 for now.

try on another provider - it is open weights.
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