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The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

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Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#401

Post by throwthrowuknow »

kube-system wrote: post #315
Aurornis wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not in favor of 3D printer controls but I feel like most of this comment section is out of touch with how far the 3D printed gun nuts have come along. It was 13 years ago that the first major fully 3D printed firearm was released and even the ATF admitted that most of their reproduction attempts were capable of firing bullets at lethal velocities https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/11/feds-get-in-on-3... I’m…

The liberator is the “hello world” of 3d printed guns. It is just barely functional enough to technically exist but practically isn’t of much use. The barrel is so short and non existent that it basically does nothing except hold the (metal) cartridge in place. A liberator isn’t much different than simply holding a cartridge in a fixture and hitting it with a hammer. In a conventional gun, the barrel serves to allow…

Isn’t the Liberator like 10 years out of date? The last 3D printed gun I saw was a submachinegun capable of full auto. It had a metal barrel but that was described as easy to acquire or make.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#402

Post by fuhgyvg7466 »

elictronic wrote: post #309
raven12345 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this index is just a joke, how Iran, Russia, and Venezuela higher than China?

I would expect China limiting the movement of their rural populations from moving into cities might be a big factor. Also it seems to end in 2025 before Iran started killing protesters in mass. Glancing around the index in question is very focused on civil liberties vs financial and life attainment in others.

Iran was not a haven of freedom before 2025. Women could get stoned for not wearing a burqa or attending men’s volleyball matches. Scoring Iran higher than China at any point in the past couple decades is ridiculous.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#403

Post by devilbunny »

nullc wrote: post #362
sleepybrett wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's actually mostly about school shootings and 'gang violence' that drive these regulations at least here in washington, which is a little paranoid. I don't think we've had too many school shootings. I know in seattle we had a shooting OUTSIDE a high school that killed a student, but I'm not sure we've had any columbine type situations.

We're unprepared to deal with world wide 24 hour media. With 350 million people even extremely rare and weird failure modes will happen often enough for the media to fearmonger a big chunk of the population into falsely believing they're significant threat. In reality firearm homicide among teenagers is a fraction of death from auto accidents, half that of suicide, and closer to deaths from drowning. But the latter t…

> homicide among teenagers

Which is, in itself, a manipulation. They largely aren’t 13- and 14-year-old innocents; they are 17, 18, and 19-year-olds who are engaged in criminal enterprises.

The murder rate in the US is far too high, but if you have no contact with the illegal drug trade your chances of being murdered plummet.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#404

Post by stavros »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #379
remarkEon wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is technically possible, it is not that easy. In other words, someone who is technical and experienced enough to manually create a lower like that is very likely to have extensive experience with firearms anyway (and likely owns many).

> While this is technically possible, it is not that easy. Isn't the same thing true for 3D printers? The first time someone tries to print something they frequently end up with spaghetti and less technically competent people wouldn't even be able to get the thing to attempt printing anything.

That used to be true, but no, nowadays they print perfectly out of the box.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#405

Post by jmspring »

favorited wrote: post #99
horsawlarway wrote: post #38

Personally, I see this as an assault on 3d printing more than any real attempt to regulate guns. I own several 3d printers. If I wanted to make something resembling a firearm I'd go to home depot WAY before I bothered 3d printing parts. You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. So given we don't do this regulati…

> You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. Why would you buy a pipe at Home Depot? A gun barrel is not a firearm, and is not required to be registered or serialized. You can drive to Arizona or Nevada and buy an actual barrel, with rifling, manufactured to meet well-known specifications, without showing an ID.…

California now requires some parts of- like shotgun barrels to go through an ffl.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#406

Post by 7e »

dabluecaboose wrote: post #9
asdff wrote: post #3

Why don't these bills go after ammo or gunpowder access? Seems as long as you have access to a cylinder, and ammunition, you can make a gun.

That was tried in Lexington and Concord circa 1775, it didn't end well for the guys trying to seize the powder. Happy Patriot's Day this weekend (April 19th)!

The guns needed for the U.S. revolution came from the French. Most U.S. farmer guns were shit for actual warfare.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#407

Post by bluGill »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #361
bluGill wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is slaves needed a stick for rice - putting a chain between two stick sill works fine for rice work - but makes it a much worse weapon.

That reasoning makes no sense. There was no significant production of rice by slaves. But also, threshing flails were used outside of rice-growing regions. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Battage_... Considering that they must be hundreds of times more expensive than long sticks with no hinge, I would say the reason must be that they're better at threshing.

Slaves was probably the wrong term, my understanding is more like oppressed farmers as opposed to slaves?

In the end though, I'm not an expert. I'm repeating what people who seem to be experts have told me and it makes sense - but I can't judge who is an expert. (either you random hacker news commenter, or whatever other "expert"). I'll gladly stand corrected if anyone can show they really are an expert.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#408

Post by some_random »

direwolf20 wrote: post #393
some_random wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a well documented Everytown campaign, you can't blame this one on firearms manufacturers.

Often, different groups align on certain issues. The one that actually causes the change to happen is the one with the most clout.

Look, the firearms industry has worked in the past to ban competitors but I really don't think they see 3d printed firearms as competitors. The market there is tiny. Meanwhile Everytown is a gun control organization that wants to ban all guns everywhere and again, is documented to be the one behind this push.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#409

Post by dabluecaboose »

7e wrote: post #406
dabluecaboose wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was tried in Lexington and Concord circa 1775, it didn't end well for the guys trying to seize the powder. Happy Patriot's Day this weekend (April 19th)!

The guns needed for the U.S. revolution came from the French. Most U.S. farmer guns were shit for actual warfare.

That's true, but the battles of Lexington, Concord, and Menotomy (And by extension, arguably the entire Revolution) were literally started by the Brits trying to confiscate their materiel. This was long before the French became involved.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#410

Post by alterom »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #376
alterom wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can easily go through a couple hundred rounds in one visit to the range. Range shooting is not what they're trying to legislate though. Whoever killed that healthcare CEO didn't need a hundred rounds. This legislation is insanely, horrendously bad and harmful, but "3D printed gun components are useless" isn't a solid argument against it. They're useful enough . The real arguments, as others said, are: 1. You can…

> Range shooting is not what they're trying to legislate though. It's the thing gun manufacturers are selling to their customer base though. The theory was they were lobbying for this to prevent competition, but it's not good enough to actually compete with them. > Whoever killed that healthcare CEO didn't need a hundred rounds. Luigi Mangione didn't have a criminal record. Given his apparent political alignment, he…

>It's the thing gun manufacturers are selling to their customer base though. The theory was they were lobbying for this to prevent competition

Does anyone actually believe this? Is there any funds for this theory?

Seems to be too far fetched to be even worth sitting.

>Luigi Mangione didn't have a criminal record

That really isn't the point (he still doesn't have a criminal record, by the way).

The point was that the stated danger of 3D printed guns is their use by criminals for criminal purposes, not economic competition to established gun manufacturers.

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