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Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

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Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#401

Post by phainopepla2 »

bhewes wrote: post #313

The a human would do it better people are hilarious. Given how many times I have been hit by human drives on my bike and watched others get creamed by a cars. One time in Boulder at a flashing cross walk a person ran right through it and the biker they creamed got stuck in the roof rack.

For real, I am convinced these are people who never walk or bike, at least around cities like Santa Monica. I am an everyday urban walker and I have to constantly be on alert not to be hit, even when I'm behaving predictably and with the right of way.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#402

Post by almosthere »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #297
almosthere wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember someone using similar language when Uber self driving killed someone - and when the video was released, it was laughable. It is also crazy that this happened 6 days ago at this point and video was NOT part of the press releases. LOL

LOL

OLO

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#403

Post by nostrademons »

trhway wrote: post #349
oakesm9 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives on a residential street right by a primary school in the UK, the majority of drivers are going over 20mph even at the peak time when there are children everywhere. While in theory human drivers should be situationally aware of the higher risks of children being around, the reality is that the majority will be in their own bubble of being late to drop their kid off and searching for the first free…

the human driver would usually drive more closely to the centerline of such a residential road. If the road is clear ahead i'd drive almost over the centerline of the road having enough clearance between my path and the parked cars for any such "jumper" to be visible long enough for me to react. If there is an opposite traffic i get back strictly into my lane and slow down much more if the parked cars are close and t…

I'd really like to see the video of the incident.

I have a similar school drop-off, and can confirm that the cars are typically going around 17-20mph around the school when they're moving. Also that yes, human drivers usually do stay much closer to the centerline.

However, Waymo was recently cleared to operate in my city, and I actually saw one in the drop-off line about a week ago. I pulled out right in front of it after dropping my kid off. And it was following the line of cars near the centerline of the road. Honestly its behavior was basically indistinguishable from a human other than being slightly more polite and letting me pull out after I put my blinker on.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#404

Post by null_deref »

moktonar wrote: post #397

The Waymo driver tech is impressive. That said an experienced driver might have recognized the pattern where a stopped big vehicle occludes a part of the road leading to such situation, and might have stopped or slowed down almost to a halt before passing. The Waymo driver reacts faster but is not able to predict such scenarios by filling the gaps, simulating the world to inform decisions. Chapeau to Waymo anyways

I think this definitely an improvement to consider, but when comparing I think that big number, i.e. statistics are the only thing that matters. Some human could detect the pattern and come to full halt another human driver could be speeding while texting

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#405

Post by jjav »

jefftk wrote: post #201
usefulposter wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Environmental context is not considered in Waymo's "peer-reviewed model" (I encourage reflexive commenters to first read it: https://waymo.com/safety/collision-avoidance-benchmarking ), only basic driver behavior and traffic signal timings. Note the weaselly "immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge" in the puff piece from Waymo Comms. No indication that they intend to account fo…

How is "immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge" worded weaselly?

Not OP but I interpret that as they are focusing exclusively on what happened after the car saw the kid.

And I completely agree that from that instant forward, the car did everything correctly.

But if I was the accident investigator for this, I would be far more interested in what happened in the 30 seconds before the car saw the kid.

Was the kid visible earlier and then disappear behind an obstruction? Or did the kid arrive from the side and was never earlier visible? These are the more important questions.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#406

Post by moomoo11 »

butlike wrote: post #326
moomoo11 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general public is stupid. That’s why they purchase goods and services (from others) and then cry about things they don’t and probably never will understand. And why they can be ignored and just fed some slop to feel better. I could lie but that’s the cold truth. Edit: I'm not sure if the repliers are being dense (highly likely), or you just skipped over context (you can click the "context" link if you're new here…

You ARE the general public. _I_ am the general public.

are you being dense on purpose, or you just don't understand how context works? hint, check out the "context" link

look at what I was replying to. if you still don't get it, then yeah I'm just proving my point and you can keep crying about it.

> So the TechCrunch headline should be "Waymo hits child better than a human driver would"? Not sure if the details reflect how the general public actually interprets this story (see the actual TC headline for exhibit A).

That is the general public sentiment I was referring to.

The fact that you go around asking dumb questions in bad faith to people is enough for me, last time I engage with you.

Have a good life!

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#407

Post by aanet »

danpalmer wrote: post #392
okdood64 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo will still have to accept some responsibility Why? This is only true if they weren't supposed to be on the road in the first place. Which is not true.

In a technical sense, maybe, but it's all going to be about optics. They have a responsibility to handle the situation well even if it's not their fault, and the public will hold them accountable for what they deem the involvement was, which may not be the actual scenario.

> In a technical sense, maybe, but it's all going to be about optics.

Indeed, it is, and that is exactly why Waymo will have to accept some responsibility. I can bet that internally Waymo's PR and Legal teams are working overtime to coordinate the details with NHTSA. We, the general public, may or may not know the details at all, if ever. However, Waymo's technical teams (Safety, etc) will also be working overtime to figure out what they could have done better.

As I mentioned, this is a standard test, and Waymo likely has 1000s of variations of this test in their simulation platforms; they will sweep across all possible parameters to make this test tighter, including the MER (minimum expected response from the AV) and perhaps raise the bar on MER (e.g. brake at max deceleration in some cases, trading off comfort metrics in those cases; etc.) and calculate the effects on local traffic (e.g. "did we endanger the rear vehicles by braking too hard? If so, by how much??" etc). All these are expected actions which the general public will never know (except, perhaps via some technical papers).

Regardless, the PR effects of this collision do not look good, especially as Waymo is expanding their service to other cities (Miami just announced; London by EOY2026). This PR coverage has potential to do more damage to the company than the actual physical damage to the poor traumatized kid and his family. THAT is the responsibility only the company will pay for.

To be sure, my intuition tells me this is not the last such collision. Expect to see some more, by other companies, as they commercialize their own services. It's a matter of statistics.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#408

Post by mlyle »

nearbuy wrote: post #381
mlyle wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many human drivers do you think would pass the bar you're setting? How many humans drivers would pass it, and what proportion of the time? Even the best drivers do not constantly maintain peak vigilance, because they are human. > IMO, the bar should be that the technology is a significant improvement over the average performance of human drivers (which I don't think is that hard), not necessarily perfect. In pr…

The parent comment said the bar should be "significant improvement" over the average performance of human drivers. Then you said, "this isn't reasonable", and the bar shouldn't be "slightly better" or "barely better". It should be at least better than the 75th percentile driver. It sounds like you either misread the parent comment or you're phrasing your response as disagreement despite proposing roughly the same thi…

All depends on what you read as "significant improvement".

A 20% lower fatal crash rate compared to the average might be a significant improvement-- from a public health standpoint, this is huge if you could reduce traffic deaths by 20%.

But if you don't get the worst drivers to replace their driving with autonomous, that "20% less than average" might actually make things worse. That's my point. The bar has to be pretty dang high to be sure that you will actually make things better.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#410

Post by raincole »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…

> I honestly cannot imagine a better outcome or handling of the situation.

> From the Waymo blog

Yeah, like, no shit Sherlock. We'd better wait for some videos before making our opinions.

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