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U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

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Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#401

Post by Yoric »

Herring wrote: post #206

The problem with these threads is everyone wants to complain about Trump, but support drops drastically when you talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. Economics on its own is probably not…

> How many of you software engineers want to sign up for high taxes?

FWIW, I do. I don't live in the US, though.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#402

Post by [deleted] »

esseph wrote: post #353
Insanity wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider as well, I think the damage done will be hard to reverse in just a decade. You lost trust of your closest allies. Even after the current presidential term, why would we (Europeans, Canadians, ..) invest in ties with the US, when the _next next_ president can be an entire shitshow again? The American people have shown that they are okay voting for the same nationalistic rhetoric twice. If it was just on…

Closer to 27%

[deleted]

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#403

Post by theshrike79 »

water9 wrote: post #386
yndoendo wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damage has been done. I working on de-investing in the USA companies and investing in the EU. USA executive branch, legislative branch, and judicial branch are a complacent in stupidity. There is no stability in the USA and no longer rule of law.

[flagged]

EU is more stable. A sigle person can't declare themselves dictator and unilaterally start applying rules affecting the whole of EU.

And the "extreme" tax thing is just pure propaganda. USA pays just as much, but it's not called a "tax", it's just insurance copays (whatever that is), credit card fees, childcare fees, tuitions etc.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#404

Post by theshrike79 »

kevinsync wrote: post #250
adev_ wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European researcher here. There is an other thing that should make America worry. Research grants have been cut everywhere in the US. That cuts deep and terminated many scientific collaborations between USA and the EU Horizons projects in many STEMs research fields. That created a void.... and sciences is like nature: it hates void (and the lack of money...) My perception in the domain is that the resulting void is b…

You being an outside observer of my country, what do you think the mid-term (next ~decade) looks like if the US is somehow able to flush the toilet and do a complete 180 from a policy and administration perspective? I imagine even if people we need are welcomed back with open arms, they're not going to want to come. I sure wouldn't want to go back to a bar where the bouncer kicked the shit out of me! Just curious, it…

You need a constitutional change.

Something ironclad that can't be changed by an "executive order" in 30 minutes.

It has to make sure nothing like this will ever happen again, there can't be public officials who can just NOT show up to congressional hearings and if they do they can just blatantly, provably, lie - because there is no penalty for lying except a honour system.

Your supreme court has to have term limits with no reelection like the German equivalent and be comprised of different strata of folks, so that all of them aren't politically nominated.

The trust is gone and not easily fixed without something really drastic happening - barring a brutal civil war, I can't see a quick way out of this. Sorry.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#405

Post by GJim »

esseph wrote: post #353
Insanity wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider as well, I think the damage done will be hard to reverse in just a decade. You lost trust of your closest allies. Even after the current presidential term, why would we (Europeans, Canadians, ..) invest in ties with the US, when the _next next_ president can be an entire shitshow again? The American people have shown that they are okay voting for the same nationalistic rhetoric twice. If it was just on…

Closer to 27%

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#406

Post by toyg »

giardini wrote: post #369
toyg wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but of course any problems stateside will be handled and voted on by Americans rather than Brits Sure. That doesn't mean that an external viewpoint is any less valid. It's like saying "of course any problems in Teheran will be handled by Iranians" or "any problems in Venezuela will be handled by Venezuelans", when someone points out the issues in those regimes. You also assume you will get another meaningful vote,…

toyg says " Sure. That doesn't mean that an external viewpoint is any less valid. " Sure, but it is unwelcome and likely invalid. toyg says " The world is watching you, and it sees something really sinister happening...innocent lives....you are in a very dark place... " Woooo! I'm scared now!8-0 1. The world is always watching us! Y'all should take a break sometime. The world is big and there are lots of other things…

> Y'all should take a break sometime

We would gladly do if only you renounced your world-ending weapons, in the same way as we would be more than happy to stop bothering with Russia, China, Pakistan, India, Israel, France, and Iran. Until then, unfortunately, we are kinda forced to pay attention, in the not-so-remote chance that some insane "representative" pulls that trigger. It also does not help that your shenanigans have a penchant for overflowing, invading countries closer to us than to you and maintaining military bases all over the world; stop doing that, and we'll happily leave you alone.

> I count one possibly innocent life lost so far.

One, two, or two hundred, it's still too many - and accounting for them like you do is simply callous.

I note you've not actually countered any point, just went "you're rubber, I am glue, nah-nah-nah". Which is sadly indicative of online discourse these days, even here.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#407

Post by GJim »

prewett wrote: post #308
retired wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Say you have €80k in investments. Markets go up, in one year time your investments are worth €90k. You did not sell. That means you had €10k in unrealized capital gains. Subtract the €1800 per person threshold. €8200, 36% tax is €2952 tax to be paid at the start of the year. Losses give you tax credits redeemable against future capital gains (not against income tax from employment)

A 36% tax?! Nobody's going to invest in that environment, since the taxes will really sap your effective compounding rate. That's a great way to push all your finance people out of the country.

I think you will find people are investing. And working.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#408

Post by piva00 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #357
piva00 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has put like 3 million, a quite a lot due to their social class. Disproportionately impacting a minority ethnicity in the process.

Still not making China a good country

I didn't state that, at all.

The point was that the US touts itself as a free country while having many perverse incentives and mechanisms oppressing part of its citizenry. There's a veneer on top of it of individual freedoms compared to a state like China but in reality it can be as brutal against its population as any totalitarian state, it's just that the power to subjugate and oppress isn't centralised and is more diffused through its institutions across history.

It's not too far in history that the US was deploying the National Guard to fire live ammo against protesters, American police has military-grade equipment deployed against their citizens, I think it makes it even harder that the oppressive power isn't centralised since to uproot this there are countless battles to be won for any change to happen. It's institutionalised, any big institution is really hard to change.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#409

Post by detritus »

GuestFAUniverse wrote: post #282
detritus wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider not in academia, your system has poisoned your well. We trusted in you to do the Right Thing , yet a significant sub-system of your culture has entirely successfully undermined your 'Checks and Balances' - a sub-system which has clearly been in action since at least the eighties. I don't know how you get rid of that. It's You. . I get that America/the West is far from perfect.

Are you kidding? Currently I wouldn't dare to enter the US, while I'm sure I would be relatively safe in China. And: even before Trump the TSA had elements of despotism. All the while I never heard of Europeans being treated like shit in China -- simply the better hosts!

I'm guessing my flawed use of an asterisk, resulting in a weird highlighting out of context, confused your interpretation of what I was saying, because I believe we're suggesting the same thing.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#410

Post by casey2 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #124
retired wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a PhD, just an engineer and I moved out of The Netherlands. It was no longer economical feasible to live there. I am very pessimistic about the future Western Europe. Right now it offers the one of the best QoL in the world for the average worker but who knows for how long. With the current brain and wealth drain there will no longer be enough people to support the social system.

The Netherlands had effectively full employment until a few years ago, last I checked. Unless things got dramatically worse in the past 3 or so years, I think you are massively overreacting. I happen to have a few personal friends that live there, for that matter.

Creating classes that bypass productive labor is possible. You then force workers to subsidize them. This maintains "full employment" on paper. The country, however, remains on the brink of collapse.
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