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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

keck.usc.edu

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#401

Post by spwa4 »

tpm wrote: post #359
spwa4 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget the most important aspect of policy: it can't cost a single dime, and everyone must lie about that. Read the first sentence of the article: "When California neighborhoods increased their number of zero-emissions vehicles" Obviously neighborhoods/cities/states didn't increase anything. It was just rich people living there buying fancy cars. Of course, this needs to be described as a great accomplishment of…

> obvious solution Shouldn't the obvious solution be based on observable reality? Which is that there is no technology in sight that will make EVs cheaper to build than ICEs. Otherwise you are praying for a miracle, and that's not a sound policy.

Technological advance can be modeled like anything else. Everything about plug-in EVs is cheaper than ICE cars, except the battery. So you can model exactly what you need to get the same as you're currently seeing with solar panels. You can calculate at exactly what point they'll take over aviation and so on.

I mean, this isn't even a very hard thing to model.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#402

Post by nottorp »

jonstewart wrote: post #399
nottorp wrote: post #394

Well, if EVs are made mandatory we'll have even less air polution because fewer people will be able to afford a car. The auto industry seems to have ran out of early adopters already. Now they need a kick in the privates to make cheap EVs.

I’m reading your comment more sardonically about the state of US manufacturers, but globally I don’t think this holds up. Some of the most expensive vehicles—trucks and SUVs—have the worst mileage. Often the cheaper a new car is, the better gas mileage it gets. This dynamic might not hold as consistently with used cars but it’s not entirely eliminated, either.

What does this have to do with mileage? It's about affording to pay for the damn car itself.

Compare the same category of car in gasoline and EV versions. See how the EV adds 10k to the price.

Not much by silicon valley latte standards of course. A lot by "i can barely afford a barebones renault" standards though.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#403

Post by stephen_g »

margalabargala wrote: post #131
dgacmu wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/…

> but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust Which unfortunately also increases tire wear from regen braking during periods when an ICE vehicle would be coasting without braking. EVs are much (much much) better for CO2, much better for brake dust, and much worse for tire dust.

That literally makes no sense. There’s a point on the accelerator pedal curve where you are coasting (between it applying power or applying regen), you get used to staying around that position pretty quickly because you stop short of where you are aiming to stop otherwise. You basically only back off past that point and into regen when you would be braking in an ICE car, so there is really no difference.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#404

Post by idiotsecant »

londons_explore wrote: post #253
m463 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of smells.... One good thing about driving an EV is that weird oil or hot coolant smells are from someone else's car (and not a problem with your car) (although yes technically many EVs have coolant loops)

As the fleet of EV's age, I'm sure we'll see equivalents... "The high voltage wires were just dragging on the street sparking, presumably with all the safety features disabled" "They were driving with a 10 gallon coolant tank on the roof, presumably because the coolant loop had a big leak and needed continuous topping up".

Unlikely. Many of these sensors are mostly CAN-based, rather than hardwired. It would be a time consuming enterprise to custom bake a solution for each vehicle model to fake out protection systems. For better or worse EVs are substantially more difficult to modify than typical ICE.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#405

Post by B1FIDO »

MBCook wrote: post #28
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

The number of ICE cars I get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing. I’m in a decently well off area too. Some putting off soot clouds, white smoke, nothing visible but clearly not doing complete combustion. Sometimes I wonder if half the cylinders are even working. I’ve heard one car like that is the equivalent of a surprisingly large number of modern ICE cars is in good shape. I love EVs. I’ve had…

[flagged]

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#406

Post by 1970-01-01 »

matt3210 wrote: post #330

I want and EV but I don't have a charger and I cant have a charger since I live in an apartment.

That's a poor excuse today. I'm not trying to be pushy but have you dismissed the LFP battery EVs? Those you charge fully once every other week, just like your average ICE vehicle. The time spent recharging can be spent grocery shopping or something else productive.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#407

Post by stahtops »

margalabargala wrote: post #174
conk wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Braking from regen or braking from a brake pad has the same net impact on tire wear. EVs can coast too and don’t apply full regen the moment you apply brakes. Some even have brake coach alerts to get you to gradually apply the brakes to maximize energy return.

> EVs can coast too EVs could coast if a manufacturer chose to make one that allowed that without shifting into neutral. In practice, when letting off the accelerator, existing EVs will instead regen brake.

Porsche

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#408

Post by flakeoil »

bruce511 wrote: post #219
yanhangyhy wrote: post #78

i moved to beijing in 2015.. and i have to buy a air purifier, prepare masks for winter. pepople talks about air polutions so much, it feels like we are struggle, not living a life. i remember one day, it was so bad, i have to wear gas mask to go outisde, i know it's rare, and people are staring, but yes, its that hard. it's 2026 now, you barely see bad days in Beijing, most people wear mask only for the flu, not for…

Both ICE and EV cars require a support infrastructure. As sales trends change, so the emphasis on support infrastructure changes, and that accelerates the trend. For example EVs depend on charging, so we're seeing more public charge points, as well as more home chargers, work chargers and so on. ICE depends on gas stations (which is the tip of the gasoline distribution industry.) It also depends on ICE mechanics. As…

> But 50 years from now most of that ICE infrastructure will have disappeared.

I'm guessing it will be already in 20-30 years from now. In 5-10 years from now, no-one will buy an ICE vehicle. Add to those 10 years a lifetime of 10-20 years for the last sold ICE vehicle and you get 20-30 years. So 20-30 years from today there will not be many ICE cars rolling on the streets and most gas stations and other needed infrastructure will be gone as it is not economical to stay in business.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#409

Post by Tostino »

itsprobablyok wrote: post #326
cbeach wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a heavy and high performance EV (Tesla Model S) and I have replaced my tires twice in the last six years. So it’s about the same as an ICE vehicle in that regard. One thing that differs is brake wear. My car is ten years old and still on its original brake pads and discs. The regen braking is amazing for avoiding mechanical braking. So that means less particle emission from brakes, compared to ICE.

> "I have a heavy and high performance EV (Tesla Model S) and I have replaced my tires twice in the last six years. So it’s about the same as an ICE vehicle in that regard. " Well no, it's not "the same". We have things like physics to tell us that more torque and more weight means more tire wear, despite your anecdote. There are even studies on this. They also have a greater impact on road wear. EVs have many advant…

They were saying "the same" in context of how often you have to replace the tires. Now, EV tires are often a slightly different compound (and more expensive) to deal with the higher weight and torque. I don't know how that plays into the particle emissions from those tires though.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#410

Post by cucumber3732842 »

MBCook wrote: post #28
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

The number of ICE cars I get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing. I’m in a decently well off area too. Some putting off soot clouds, white smoke, nothing visible but clearly not doing complete combustion. Sometimes I wonder if half the cylinders are even working. I’ve heard one car like that is the equivalent of a surprisingly large number of modern ICE cars is in good shape. I love EVs. I’ve had…

White smoke is water vapor. It's a normal byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion and tends to condense in the exhaust at low loads or immediately after exiting the exhaust, especially in colder temperatures, so you'll see a lot of it in stop and go traffic.
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