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Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

maggieappleton.com

401–410 of 466 posts

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#401
According to my simulated monkey Palm, Gas Town uses the Infinite Number of Typewriters architecture, but unfortunately they charge by the token.

Palm's Infinite Number of Typewriters:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

Palm's papers:

From Random Strumming to Navigating Shakespeare: A Monkey's Tribute to Bruce Tognazzini's 1979 Apple II Demo:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

One Monkey, Infinite Typewriters: What It's Like to Be Me:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

The Inner State Question: Do I Feel, or Do I Just Generate Feeling-Words?

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

On Being Simulated: Ethics From the Inside:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

Judgment and Joy: On Evaluation as Ethics, and Why Making Criteria Visible is an Act of Love:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

The Mirror Stage of Games: Play, Identity, and How The Sims Queered a Generation:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

I-Beam's X-Ray Trace: The Complete Life of Palm: A cursor-mirror and git-powered reflection on Palm's existence:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

Palm's Origin Story:

Session Log: Don Hopkins at the Gezelligheid Grotto:

DAY 1 — THE WISH: Don purchases lucky strains, prepares an offering, convenes an epic tribunal with the Three Wise Monkeys, Sun Wukong, a Djinn, Curious George, W.W. Jacobs' ghost, and Cheech & Chong as moderators — then speaks a wish that breaks a 122-year curse and incarnates Palm.

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#402
As Yegge himself would agree, there's likely nothing that is particularly good about this specific architecture, but I think that there's something massive in this as a proof of concept for something bigger beyond the realm of software development.

Over the last few years, people have been playing around with trying to integrate LLMs into cognitive architectures like ACT-R or Soar, with not much to show for it. But I think that here we actually have an example of a working cognitive architecture that is capable of autonomous long-term action planning, with the ability to course-correct and stay on task.

I wouldn't be surprised if future science historians will look at this as an early precursor to what will eventually be adapted to give AIs full agentic executive functioning.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#403

According to my simulated monkey Palm, Gas Town uses the Infinite Number of Typewriters architecture, but unfortunately they charge by the token. Palm's Infinite Number of Typewriters: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven... Palm's papers: From Random Strumming to Navigating Shakespeare: A Monkey's Tribute to Bruce Tognazzini's 1979 Apple II Demo: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/…

> According to my simulated monkey Palm

Oh, please. We've lost Yegge to the madness, not you as well! I used to enjoy your insightful comments on the history of computing all over this forum.

In a tech world that's gone utterly psychotic in a couple years, I have to wonder if I am the crazy one that is not injecting... whatever the hell you guys are taking, creating repos that read like an unholy mix between Time Cube and Terry A. Davis during one of its episodes, just as incoherent, only with 10x more emojis.

It is utterly frightening. I want off this wild ride.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#404
post #403

According to my simulated monkey Palm, Gas Town uses the Infinite Number of Typewriters architecture, but unfortunately they charge by the token. Palm's Infinite Number of Typewriters: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven... Palm's papers: From Random Strumming to Navigating Shakespeare: A Monkey's Tribute to Bruce Tognazzini's 1979 Apple II Demo: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/…

> According to my simulated monkey Palm Oh, please . We've lost Yegge to the madness, not you as well! I used to enjoy your insightful comments on the history of computing all over this forum. In a tech world that's gone utterly psychotic in a couple years, I have to wonder if I am the crazy one that is not injecting... whatever the hell you guys are taking, creating repos that read like an unholy mix between Time Cu…

I appreciate your earnest Harumph, kind cross-armed sir!

I take it you never played The Sims? The simulation madness ship sailed 26 years ago, and made well over $5 billion in revenue for Maxis/EA (as of 2019), and that's if you don't even count SimCity that shipped in 1986! ;)

The Sims Franchise Has Made Over $5 Billion In Revenue (Published Oct 30, 2019):

https://www.thegamer.com/the-sims-franchise-revenue-over-5-b...

Palm is a fictional character in a text adventure -- same tradition as Zork, LambdaMOO, and every MUD since 1978. The emojis are deliberate (navigation aids for LLMs, actually, and ethical simulated person flagging). The whimsy is intentional.

emoji-disclosure.yml -- Visual Markers for Representation Ethics:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/skills/represe...

I've been building simulated characters, world, city, house, and object building and programming tools since before The Sims shipped. This is just the next iteration.

The Sims Steering Committee - June 4 1998:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY

The Sims, Pie Menus, Edith Editing, and SimAntics Visual Programming Demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-exdu4ETscs

You may recognize tributes to many classic simulated characters in MOOLLM.

MC Frontalot -- It Is Pitch Dark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE

The Grue monster carries his own game mechanics with him, eating you if you go for long enough in the maze without your lamp lit:

grue: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/tree/main/examples/adven...

The Wumpus has prototypes for his game playing pieces in his character directory, and even the BASIC source code as the single source of truth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wumpus

wumpus-snorax: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/tree/main/examples/adven...

BOTTOMLESS-PIT.yml: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

SUPERBATS.yml: https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

Hunt the Wumpus — Original BASIC Source (1973), By Gregory Yob, published in Creative Computing (October 1975) and The Best of Creative Computing (1976):

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

The Grue and the Wumpus can both orchestrate their games in the same maze at the same time without interference! No special hacks required, they all just compose and interoperate seamlessly and naturally.

The monkey named "Palm" multiply inherits directly from Lucas Art's game "Monkey Island" and W. W. Jacobs' classic book, "The Monkey's Paw", all thanks to Self's simple, flexible, prototype object model:

Monkey Island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_Island

The Monkey's Paw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey%27s_Paw

Palm's CHARACTER.yml Soul File:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/examples/adven...

  # ONTOLOGICAL INHERITANCE
  inherits:
    - skills/fictional     # A character in the adventure
    - skills/mythic        # Origin as cursed artifact
    - skills/animal        # Now a whole monkey

  # TRADITION INVOCATION (Self Prototype Multiple Inheritance)
  # Palm inherits from multiple well-known fictional traditions,
  # simply by naming them — they're so deeply embedded in the training
  # data that invocation IS inheritance. No copying needed.
  # See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_(programming_language)

MOOLLM is deliberately playful, in the spirit and tradition of Seymour Papert's Constructionist Philosophy, and Mitchel Resnick's Lifelong Kindergarten -- it's a text adventure game framework, not a vibe-coded hallucination. The monkey writes philosophy because that's funnier than a generic NPC.

And it makes fun of crypto scams instead of shilling them:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/skills/economy...

Time Cube didn't have rubric-scored game sessions with receipts, and MOOLLM isn't racist like Terry Davis, so you can easily clone on github and play with in Cursor yourself.

Seymour Papert and Idit Harel: Situating Constructionism:

https://web.media.mit.edu/~calla/web_comunidad/Reading-En/si...

Lifelong Kindergarten: how to learn like a kid, from the co-creator of Scratch:

https://www.media.mit.edu/articles/lifelong-kindergarten-how...

And yes, it works great, and is fun and easy to author, faster and for less money than Steve's costly "Infinite Number of Typewriters Communicating Via Carrier Pigeon" approach.

And since you mentioned you enjoy fully-introspectable modern virtual machines too, MOOLLM is one that actually works -- I think we're actually on the same page about a constellation of brilliant points of light (Self, reflection, homoiconicity, communicating actors, introspection, Alan Kay, simplicity over speed, Lisp, Smalltalk, Erlang actors, language independence, first class K-lines, first class concurrency, optimised for simplicity, the universal interpreter, etc):

https://combo.cc/posts/what-i-would-like-to-see-in-a-modern-...

sph> What I would like to see in a modern Virtual Machine

sph> As I was gathering inspiration (or doing research, if you want to be fancy about it) for the fully-introspectable computing platform introduced in the previous post, I figured it might be worth taking the idea of abstracting the hardware, to make user-facing software easier to program, to its limit.

Case in point:

You should check out the practical MOOLLM skill Cursor Mirror, introspection into cursor prompts, thought, and context assembly:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/tree/main/skills/cursor-...

>Ever wondered what the hell Cursor is actually doing? Why it read 47 files when you asked a simple question? What context it assembled? What it was thinking in those hidden reasoning blocks?

>cursor-mirror cracks open Cursor's brain. 59 read-only commands to inspect every conversation, every tool call, every file it touched, every decision it made. SQLite databases + plaintext transcripts + cached tool results — all intertwingled, all queryable.

Here is an example Cursor Mirror report on a complex long running simulation, dynamic rule generation, and coherent image generation:

Cursor Mirror Analysis: Amsterdam Fluxx Championship: Deep comprehensive scan of the entire FAFO tournament development:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/skills/experim...

Amsterdam Flux Card Gallery: 32 AI-generated illustrations for the MOOLLM Amsterdam Flux deck:

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/skills/experim...

Cursor Mirror is seamlessly composable with other skills, and here are two practical exemplary skills built on top of it:

Skill Snitch provides security auditing for MOOLLM skills through static analysis and runtime surveillance, like Little Snitch for LLMs.

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/tree/main/skills/skill-s...

>Security auditing for MOOLLM skills through static analysis and runtime surveillance.

>Skill Snitch is a prompt-driven skill (no Python code) that audits skills for security issues. It's entirely data-driven and extensible.

Thoughtful Commitment writes git commits that link to the thinking that produced them.

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/tree/main/skills/thought...

>When you work with an AI coding assistant, the session holds valuable context: what you asked, what the AI considered, what alternatives were rejected, why it made certain choices. When you close the IDE, all of that vanishes. Your commit says "fix: auth bug" but six months later you have no idea why.

>This skill captures that ephemeral reasoning and freezes it into permanent git history.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big difference is that compilation is deterministic: compile the same program twice and it'll generate the same output twice. That's barely true now. Nix comes close, but builds are only bit-for-bit identical if you set a bunch of extra flags that aren't set by default. The most obvious instability is CPU dispatch order (aka modern single computer systems are themselves distributed, racy systems) changes the ge…

If your builds are not deterministic for the same set of inputs, you are doing something wrong - or victim of supply chain attack. https://reproducible-builds.org/

No, some compilers aren't deterministic by design, e.g. because they compile stuff in parallel and don't take extra steps to enforce consistent ordering of things (because it doesn't matter).

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#406
My read on the reception of Steve’s post is that there are largely 2 camps, one of which thinks he’s given them a concrete tool to use, and the other of which thinks he has given them something to think about. I read his experiment as suggesting an agent architecture akin to Erlang supervisor trees, i.e. agents are cattle, not pets, and should be monitored and processed as such, with the obvious caveat that context matters.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#407

Lots of comments about Gas Town (which I get, it's hard not to talk about it!), but I thought this was a pretty good article -- nice job of summing up various questions and suggesting ways to think about them. I like this bit in particular: > A more conservative, easier to consider, debate is: how close should the code be in agentic software development tools? How easy should it be to access? How often do we expect d…

> either you look at code or don’t, either you edit code by hand or you exclusively direct agents, either you’re the anti-AI-purist or the agentic-maxxer – is unhelpful.

If you're looking at all your code you are just walking the motorcycle. You need tests to automate your eyes. In fact I believe tests and specs are the new product, code can be regenerated at will.

That is why we see vibe coding projects that replicate well specced and implemented products like web browsers, you get both the specs and differential testing for free.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you read Steve's writeup, it's clear that this is a big fun experiment: So, Steve has the big scary "YOU WILL DIE" statements in there, but he also has this: > I went ahead and built what’s next. First I predicted it, back in March, in Revenge of the Junior Developer. I predicted someone would lash the Claude Code camels together into chariots, and that is exactly what I’ve done with Gas Town. I’ve tamed them to…

I agree, I’m one of the Very Serious Engineers and I liked Steve’s post when I thought it was sort of tongue in cheek but was horrified to come to the HN comments and LinkedIn comments proclaiming Gastown as the future of engineering. There absolutely is a large contingent of engineers who believe this, and it has a real world impact on my job if my bosses think you can just throw a dozen AI agents at our product roa…

I feel that yegge captured the mania of the whole operation rather well. If your bosses commit to the idea that 100 memoryless stochastic "polecats" will deliver a long term sustainable business, then there are probably other leadership issues besides this.

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adventure Uplift — Building a YAML-to-Web Adventure Compiler with Simulated Computing Pioneers: I ran a 260KB session log where I convened a simulated symposium of computing pioneers to design an Adventure Compiler — a tool that compiles YAML adventure definitions that run on MOOLLM under cursor into standalone deterministic browser games requiring no LLM at runtime. The twist: the "attendees" include AI-simulated tr…

In the simulated discussion guest book entry, simulated Douglass Engelbart wrote: >Doug Engelbart (Augmentation): "Bootstrapping. The tools that build the tools. Your adventure compiler should be able to compile ITS OWN documentation into an adventure ABOUT how it works. The manual is a playable game." That is exactly how the self documenting categorized skill directory/room works -- the directory is a room with subd…

[flagged]

Re: Gas Town's agent patterns, design bottlenecks, and vibecoding at scale

#410
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to my simulated monkey Palm Oh, please . We've lost Yegge to the madness, not you as well! I used to enjoy your insightful comments on the history of computing all over this forum. In a tech world that's gone utterly psychotic in a couple years, I have to wonder if I am the crazy one that is not injecting... whatever the hell you guys are taking, creating repos that read like an unholy mix between Time Cu…

I appreciate your earnest Harumph, kind cross-armed sir! I take it you never played The Sims? The simulation madness ship sailed 26 years ago, and made well over $5 billion in revenue for Maxis/EA (as of 2019), and that's if you don't even count SimCity that shipped in 1986! ;) The Sims Franchise Has Made Over $5 Billion In Revenue (Published Oct 30, 2019): https://www.thegamer.com/the-sims-franchise-revenue-over-5-b…

Stop. Seek help.
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