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In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

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Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#401

Post by epolanski »

embedding-shape wrote: post #179
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there. I'm a…

Also, more people having solar have the indirect effect to bringing energy prices down for everyone.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#402

Post by testing22321 »

dyauspitr wrote: post #315
testing22321 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers for Australia are very out of date. My Dad in Australia just got 10.6kw fully installed and running for $4,000 AUD

Was this on his roof? Were there government subsidies?

Yes and yes

Australia is spending tax dollars to get solar on every roof in the country instead of building coal or nuke plants. Now people are getting free power as a result.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#403

Post by epolanski »

coryrc wrote: post #284
lurk2 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2022-11-28 - “About 2.6 million Uyghur and Kazakh people have been subjected to coercion, “re-education programs” and internment in the Xinjiang region of north-west China, which is the source of 40-45% of the world’s solar-grade polysilicon. A report by the United Nations office of the high commissioner for human rights three months ago found Xinjiang was home to “serious human rights violations”, and the US has lis…

It's convenient the Islamic countries don't seem to mind their coreligonists being persecuted here, especially as these people haven't launched military invasions of neighboring regions.

Islamic countries, especially the Arab ones barely said anything in face of the genocide in Gaza.

Hell, more journalists have died reporting in Gaza than in WW2, Vietnam, Iraq and Afganistan combined and nobody gives two damns.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#404

Post by epolanski »

direwolf20 wrote: post #127
cromka wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, credit where credit is due, it's all thanks to China.

The one country that still produces goods rather than switching to complete financialization!

Just to point out, but producing goods in exchange for pieced of paper is a weak system, especially if it's focus is export and not internal consumption, see Germany, Japan, Italy or China, all slowing down due to their reliance on exports.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#405

Post by Moldoteck »

mrweasel wrote: post #384
Moldoteck wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a meme with a few cents more in germany, can search on the google "eis kugel energiewende" DK has one of the highest household prices in EU per eurostat https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Imo CO2 tax should be gone to alleviate this, especially when China and US dont have it. This just causes offshoring. If you want electrification, you need cheap electricity. If you want more ren…

But the energy from windmills doesn't have a CO2 tax (it did at some point) and it frequently provides most, if not all, of the Danish energy (electricity) consumption. There's ONE coal fired power plant left in the country and it's scheduled to close in 2028. I get that we then have gas and garbage incinerators for heating, but we are getting electrification and lower prices. I frankly don't care what the US and Chi…

Co2 tax is just an indirect subsidy for renewables. When prices are low those are subsidized through cfds. When high- through merit order artificially pumped by co2 tax. This isn't bad per se but it affects negatively final consumer prices and industry which is bad.

Problem is not about the neighbors throwing trash. Unilateral co2 tax means industry relocates to regions where it's not present. In your analogy it would look like you are sending trash to US to deal with it.

DK is lucky to be able to get firming from nordics, but not everyone can do this. And from what I remember Norway already said one of the interconnectors will not have extended license at EOL

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#406

Post by torlok »

altern8 wrote: post #331
torlok wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Poland too and the only thing we have is land, the sun, and wind. Coal poisons the air we breathe, and hurts the climate our children will live in. It's not about money, it's about security. The worst thing for polish security is being dependent on foreign oil and gas, and to be reliant on a few power plants that are an easy target for russian drones, and rely on water from rivers that are running dry more a…

I like nuclear. But I think it's a huge investment that would take decades.

I'm fine with supplementing with nuclear, but it's still a single point of failure, and needs water. France and Switzerland had to shut down nuclear plants last year because the rivers got too hot. This issue is not going away.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#407

Post by colechristensen »

embedding-shape wrote: post #179
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there. I'm a…

>Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year?

If everyone gets the benefit it's either A) exactly the same cost but with additional government program or B) some form of wealth distribution and not necessarily in a direction you favor

Also large solar installations are significantly more cost efficient.

Mind you I am IN FAVOR of subsidized residential solar, but let's not pretend government money is free.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#408

Post by epolanski »

pranavj wrote: post #113

The most underreported part of this story is the battery piece at the end. Batteries are beginning to displace natural gas in evening peak hours - that's the exact window where solar critics have long argued renewables fall short. If this trend accelerates (and battery prices are dropping faster than most models predicted), the "intermittency problem" starts looking more like a solvable engineering challenge than a f…

A huge part of this calculus though is that the gas we buy since Russia disappeared as a provider is insanely high.

Our economics may not match Canadian or US ones.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#409

Post by epolanski »

bee_rider wrote: post #381
pranavj wrote: post #113

The most underreported part of this story is the battery piece at the end. Batteries are beginning to displace natural gas in evening peak hours - that's the exact window where solar critics have long argued renewables fall short. If this trend accelerates (and battery prices are dropping faster than most models predicted), the "intermittency problem" starts looking more like a solvable engineering challenge than a f…

Intermittence really has always had the flavor of an engineering problem instead of a physics problem (it is about putting the energy when/where humans want it, rather than having enough of it). IMO load shifting seems like a cleverer and more engineer-y solution. Imagine a giant smart system where all of our appliances talk to each-other and can optimize the timings of their workloads. It’s a magnificent society-wid…

I ain't gonna use the dishwasher when the system wants me to, but when I can or want.

I pay low energy prices during night than day, that's normal, but I'm still not gonna do laundry at 9 pm, I'd rather pay the 10/20 cents more during the day.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#410

Post by dangjc »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #209
embedding-shape wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there. I'm a…

>I'm a renter, been all my life, I'd be happy to pay more in taxes if it means more solar panels for everyone except me. But I also feel the same about elder care, health care and a bunch of other things, do you feel the same for those things too, or this is specifically about solar or owning vs renting? There's an alternative, and almost certainly cheaper per watt with cost of scale, where your tax dollars go to a n…

Rooftop solar has lower distribution costs. A solar farm needs new transmission and upgraded capacity distribution lines to get the power from far away to the users. Generating solar right next to your neighbors lets them access your surplus cheap power with existing slack capacity in the distribution lines. Our current monopoly utilities don’t have a mechanism to recognize that value created, and they would prefer to keep building more infrastructure as that’s what increases profits for them.
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