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The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

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Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#401

Post by firefax »

Helmut10001 wrote: post #106
Fiveplus wrote: post #82

So, if you cannot cryptographically prove to a remote server that your device is running essentially unmodified, vendor-signed software, you are locked out of the economy? The irrefutable part here is that the security model works. Locking down the bootloader and enforcing TEE signatures does stop malware. But it also kills user agency. We are moving to a model where the user is considered the adversary on their own…

As I mentioned in another post: By 2026, you'll need two phones. My current setup: 1) An unmodified iPhone SE (2022 model) with OS support until 2032. This runs all my authentication, banking, health, etc. It is in airplane mode 99% of the time unless I need it. 2) The second is a Pixel 9a with Graphene OS for daily use, routing and internet access. This is expensive, but I found it to be the only viable solution to…

Is there a resource for what phones are known good to run GrapheneOS?

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#402

Post by craftkiller »

wolvoleo wrote: post #247
Helmut10001 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned in another post: By 2026, you'll need two phones. My current setup: 1) An unmodified iPhone SE (2022 model) with OS support until 2032. This runs all my authentication, banking, health, etc. It is in airplane mode 99% of the time unless I need it. 2) The second is a Pixel 9a with Graphene OS for daily use, routing and internet access. This is expensive, but I found it to be the only viable solution to…

You'll still need to bring your iPhone out with you then and thus it will capture your location and more for the companies to data-mine.

Why? Do you have many unplanned urgent banking needs? Everything that needs an unmodified phone can wait until I get home.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#403

Post by SoftTalker »

ryandrake wrote: post #343
SoftTalker wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, a lot of small employers still issue paper payroll checks.

Maybe it's different for non-homeowners or people without kids. Just looking back at my records for about 2 years, I've written 36 paper checks in that time, not including the "online bill pay" provided by my bank which are often just physical checks they send in the mail: Kids extracurricular activities, school PTA donations, memberships in local clubs, pool service, home improvement jobs like fences and concrete, a…

Last check I wrote was for some car repairs at a local shop, where using a credit card would add a 3% premium. I agree, local services and contractors are some of the last people who you still can't pay electronically, but it's getting increasingly rare. Most will now at least take Venmo/Zelle.

I do own a home but find that almost everything can be paid online now. I write just a few paper checks per year. Even my taxes I pay on the state or IRS website (with ECH, so effectively a check but without the paper).

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#404

Post by kome »

ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

we should save the idea of general computing. fuck cell phones.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#405

Post by [deleted] »

npn wrote: post #315
alephnerd wrote: post #98

1. Don't people on HN realize Vietnam is a single party authoritarian state with a very active secret police (MPS/BCA)? 2. Vietnam has been in the process of rolling out national biometric identification for years now as part of the VNeID [0] project, and unifying that with banking and mobile phone identification is an important part of that such as with the recent FPT Telecom announcement [1]. The aim is to turn VNe…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#406

Post by ambicapter »

LoganDark wrote: post #340
sneak wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already? App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose…

The problem is mostly that normal people can't be trusted with system-level access but some people can. And it's literally, provably not possible to tell them apart. For the masses, lack of system-level access is a benefit because they won't be able to ruin their device. For hackers and hobbyists, lack of system-level access is a hindrance because they won't be able to control their device.

If the only damage is personal (they lose their own money), why can't we make them responsible for their choices?

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#407

Post by wolvoleo »

drnick1 wrote: post #150
NoGravitas wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that GrapheneOS is not rooted, and, unlike other non-rooted custom ROMs, allows re-locking the bootloader. But , whether a banking app will work depends on what level of Google Play attestation they require. While most banking apps work fine on it, a significant minority do not.

To be fair, this seems to be mostly a European problem. U.S. banks do not seem to enforce Play (dis)Integrity.

Yeah I wish we could do without a bank in modern life. When bitcoin first began I was really in support of it because I saw potential in freeing us from the dark stranglehold of the banking industry. Everyone just manages their own digital money.

But nope the cryptobros just turned it into another pyramid speculation scheme and the governments ruined the customer independence with their KYC stuff. Now it's just an online version of the old system where the exchanges are the new banks.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#408

Post by finaard »

fph wrote: post #166
finaard wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you can still do banking on your PC? I stopped using banking apps on my phones a few years ago - they got more and more annoying, and I don't buy into the "the device is secure and should be used as a trust token". So I'm now back to banking only on my computer, with a hardware token for TAN generation.

Hardware tokens are not allowed in Europe to authorize certain operations such as bank transfers: you need a device that can show the operation you are about to authorize ("enter 123456 to confirm your payment of 99.99 € to Pornhub"). And that essentially means using a phone.

I'm in Europe, and some of my banks still operate with a token just showing numbers, while others use devices with QR code readers and a colour display which then can show transaction details.

They don't really like you using that and keep annoying you to stop doing that, but I don't think they'll fully get rid of that - those are filling some accessibility niches as well.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#409

Post by wolvoleo »

craftkiller wrote: post #402
wolvoleo wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll still need to bring your iPhone out with you then and thus it will capture your location and more for the companies to data-mine.

Why? Do you have many unplanned urgent banking needs? Everything that needs an unmodified phone can wait until I get home.

Yeah kinda. Because even paying something online now requires 2FA from that banking app :(

Sometimes when party tickets come online I have to be really quick to buy them for early bird price.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#410

Post by finaard »

SoftTalker wrote: post #279
gabrielhidasy wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bet the confusion stems from the rest of the world having essentially forgotten what is a check/cheque almost a generation ago. I only used them twice in my life, last one was in 2012 and I had to get a supervisor at the bank to find the procedure to get a checkbook at the time.

In the US, a lot of small employers still issue paper payroll checks.

The last time I (EU) touched a check was in 2006 - my elderly landlord used that to refund overpaid utilities. I had to google what to do with that thing - the bank I was with wasn't handling checks at all, so I had to go to a branch of a different bank. And even there they first had to look up what to do with that thing.
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