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ChatGPT Health

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401–410 of 677 posts

Re: ChatGPT Health

#402
post #104

"we built foundational protections (...) including (...) training our models not to retain personal information from user chats" Can someone please ELI5 - why is this a training issue, rather than basic design? How does one "train" for this?

This is just marketing nonsense. You don't have to train models to not retain personal information. They simply have no memory. In order to have a chat with an LLM, every time the whole conversation history gets reprocessed - it is not just the last answer / question gets send to the LLM but all preceding back and forth. But what they do is exfiltrate facts and emotions from your chats to create a profile of you and…

> In order to have a chat with an LLM, every time the whole conversation history gets reprocessed - it is not just the last answer / question gets send to the LLM but all preceding back and forth.

Btw, context caching can overcome this, e.g. https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/caching . However, this means it needs to persist the (large) state in the server side, so it may have costs associated to it.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#403

maybe the openai moat is the data we shared along the way. no seriously, openai seemingly lost interest in being the 'best' model - instead optimizing for other traits such as speech and general human likeness? there's obviously codex but from my experience it's slower and worse than the other big 2 in every single way: cost, speed and accuracy. codex does seem to be loved by vibe coders the most that don't really kn…

GPT 5.2 High is the gold standard in code quality right now. The “Codex” models suck. Claude, even Opus, creates major side-effects and misses obvious root causes of bugs.

haven't done bug hunting with openai so cannot comment, but given the right tools opus can most definitely solve bugs as well.

I think opus is special because it was trained explicitely on very strong reliance on such tools while gpt seems to "know" how things work a lot better reducing the need for tools.

opus being able to dedicate a lot more parameters for these things make it a better model if you give it what it needs, but that's just my observation. it's also much faster as a bonus.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#404
post #212
post #65

I’m kind of torn on this. From one side, I can’t seem to trust doctors any more. I recently had a tooth removed (by the advice of two different doctors), in a claim that it will resolve my pain, which it did not, and now 3 different doctors don’t know what’s causing my pain. Most doctor advice boil down to drink some water and take a painkiller, while glancing for 15 seconds at my medical history before they dedicate…

Before I moved to where I live now, I had a doctor's office open in my neighborhood I could walk to. At first I thought it was amazing and I started going there. It was a really fancy place, state of art, loads of diagnostic equipment and a limited on-site lab, almost a hospital. But pretty soon I realized I was almost always seeing Nurse Practitioners, or Doctors so fresh out of medical school they were still wet be…

Yes, I've found the more financially motivated doctors in the higher end "concierge" type centers are not as skilled or experienced or overall motivated as the ones who seek out the patients with difficult cases at government reimbursement rates. The irony...

Re: ChatGPT Health

#405

My uncle had an issue with his balance and slurred speech. Doctors claimed dementia and sent him home. It kept becoming worse and worse. Then one day I entered the symptoms in ChatGPT (or was it Gemini?) and asked it for the top 3 hypotheses. The first one was related to dementia. The second was something else (I forget the long name). I took all 3 to his primary care doc who had kept ignoring the problem, and asked…

That story says a lot about where the gaps really are. Most doctors aren’t lacking raw intelligence, they’re just crushed for time and constrained by whatever diagnostic playbook their clinic rewards. A chatbot isn’t magic insight, it’s just the only “colleague” people can brainstorm with for as long as they need. In your uncle’s case it nudged the GP out of autopilot and back into actual differential diagnosis. I’d love a world where physicians get protected time and incentives to do that kind of broader reasoning without a patient having to show up with a print‑out from Gemini, but until then these tools are becoming the second opinion patients can actually obtain.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#406

My uncle had an issue with his balance and slurred speech. Doctors claimed dementia and sent him home. It kept becoming worse and worse. Then one day I entered the symptoms in ChatGPT (or was it Gemini?) and asked it for the top 3 hypotheses. The first one was related to dementia. The second was something else (I forget the long name). I took all 3 to his primary care doc who had kept ignoring the problem, and asked…

I've heard a lot of such anecdotes. I'm not saying its ill-intentioned, but the skeptic in me is cautious that this is the type of reasoning which propels the anti-vax movement. I wish / hope the medical community will address stories like this before people lose trust in them entirely. How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this? How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcome…

> How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this?

The anecdote in question is not about mis-diagnosis, it's about a delayed diagnosis. And yeah, the inquiry sent a doctor down three paths, one of which led to a diagnosis, so let's be clear: no, the doctor didn't get it completely on their own, and: ChatGPT was, at best, 33% correct.

The biggest problem in medicine right now (that's creating a lot of the issues people have with it I'd claim) is twofold:

- Engaging with it is expensive, which raises the expectations of quality of service substantially on the part of the patients and their families

- Virtually every doctor I've ever talked to complains about the same things: insufficient time to give proper care and attention to patients, and the overbearingness of insurance companies. And these two lead into each other: so much of your doc's time is spent documenting your case. Basically every hour of patient work on their part requires a second hour of charting to document it. Imagine having to write documentation for an hour for every hour of coding you did, I bet you'd be behind a lot too. Add to it how overworked and stretched every medical profession is from nursing to doctors themselves, and you have a recipe for a really shitty experience on the part of the patients, a lot of whom, like doctors, spend an inordinate amount of time fighting with insurance companies.

> How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcomes?

Depends on the quality of the research. In the case of this anecdote, I would say middling. I would also say though if the anecdotes of numerous medical professionals I've heard speak on the topic are to be believed, this is an outlier in regard to it actually being good. The majority of "patient research" that shows up is new parents upset about a vaccine schedule they don't understand, and half-baked conspiracy theories from Facebook. Often both at once.

That said, any professional, doctors included, can benefit from more information from whomever they're serving. I have a great relationship with my mechanic because by the time I take my car to him, I've already ruled out a bunch of obvious stuff, and I arrive with detailed notes on what I've done, what I've tried, what I've replaced, and most importantly: I'm honest about it. I point exactly where my knowledge on the vehicle ends, and hope he can fill in the blanks, or at least he'll know where to start poking. The problem there is the vast majority of the time, people don't approach doctors as "professionals who know more than me who can help me solve a problem," they approach them as ideological enemies and/or gatekeepers of whatever they think they need, which isn't helpful and creates conflict.

> Are there medical boards that are sending PSAs to help doctors improve common mis-diagnosis?

Doctors have shitloads of journals and reading materials that are good for them to go through, which also factors into their overworked-ness but nevertheless; yes.

> Whats the role of LLMs in all of this?

Honestly I see a lot of applications of them in the insurance side of things, unless we wanted to do something cool and like, get a decent healthcare system going.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#407
post #362
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General doctors aren't trained for problem solving, they're trained for memorization. The doctors that are good at problem solving aren't general doctors.

That's a sweeping generalization unsupported by facts. In reality you'll find the vast majority of GPs are highly intelligent and quite good at problem solving. In fact, I'd go so far as to say their training is so intensive and expansive that laypeople who make such comments are profoundly lacking in awareness on the topic. Physicians are still human, so like anything there's of course bad ones, specialists included…

> In reality you'll find the vast majority of GPs are highly intelligent and quite good at problem solving.

Is this statement supported by facts? If anything this statement is just your internal sentiment. If you claim it’s not supported by facts the proper thing you should do is offer facts to counter his statement. Don’t claim his statement isn’t supported by facts than make a counter claim without facts yourself.

https://www.statnews.com/2023/07/21/misdiagnoses-cost-the-u-...

Read that fact. 800,000 deaths from misdiagnosis a year is pretty pathetic. And this is just deaths. I can guarantee you the amount of mistakes unreported that don’t result in deaths dwarfs that number.

Boeing the air plane manufacurwe who was responsible for the crashing Boeing 737 mcas units have BETTER outcomes than this. In the year that those planes crashed you have a 135x better survival rate of getting on a 737 max then you are getting an important diagnosis from a doctor and not dying from a misdiagnosis. Yet doctors are universally respected and Boeing as a corporation was universally reviled that year.

I will say this GPs are in general not very competent. They are about as competent and trust worthy as a car mechanic. There are good ones, bad ones, and also ones that bullshit and lie. Don’t expect anything more than that, and this is supported by facts.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#408
I always check my blood test and mrı results with ChatGPT before showing to Doctor. Doctor says same thing what ChatGPT says and it's giving more clear and detailed information. However we shouldn't trust chatgpt result 100%. It's just good to take an idea. Also we shouldn't trust any doctor 100%

Re: ChatGPT Health

#409
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of such anecdotes. I'm not saying its ill-intentioned, but the skeptic in me is cautious that this is the type of reasoning which propels the anti-vax movement. I wish / hope the medical community will address stories like this before people lose trust in them entirely. How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this? How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcome…

Linking this anecdote to anti-vaxxing really seems a stretch, and I would like to see the reasoning behind that. My impression is that anti-vaxxers have more issues with vaccines themselves than with doctors who recommend them

I think that completely misreads a comment that was already painstakingly clear, they're specifically talking about the phenomenon of reasoning by anecdote. It wasn't a one-to-one equivalence between LLM driven medicine consultations and the full range of dynamics found in the anti-vax movement. Remember to engage in charitable interpretation.

Re: ChatGPT Health

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of such anecdotes. I'm not saying its ill-intentioned, but the skeptic in me is cautious that this is the type of reasoning which propels the anti-vax movement. I wish / hope the medical community will address stories like this before people lose trust in them entirely. How frequent are mis-diagnosis like this? How often is "user research" helping or hurting the process of getting good health outcome…

The fact is that doctors are human, so they have cognitive biases and make mistakes and sometimes miss things, just like all other humans.

Humans are extraordinarily lazy sometimes too. A good LLM does not possess that flaw.

A doctor can also have an in-the-moment negatively impactful context: depression, exhaustion, or any number of life events going on, all of which can drastically impact their performance. Doctors get depressed like everybody else. They can care less due to something affecting them. These are not problems a good LLM has.

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